Free Speech: Corporate and Anonymous

The Supreme Court’s Citizens United Corporate Campaign case Should Be Controversial. But Not for the Reason You Think

If you have any doubt about the ability of the political Left to set the agenda in this country, look at the controversy over the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United corporate campaign finance case.

What most people have heard about the case is that it “allowed corporations to spend unlimited amounts in federal elections,” a ruling the extreme left considers controversial. (The Court voided a section of federal campaign law.) But we rarely hear that the Court upheld only the rights of corporations to spend independentlyof the candidates—and that the justices left in place the part of federal law that bans corporations from donating to candidates.

And we never hear that, over the dissent of Justice Thomas, Citizens United upheld federal requirements that corporate campaign expenditures be publicly disclosed. The Left does not consider that part of the decision to be controversial.

Yet from an objective constitutional point of view, the Court’s decision protecting corporate First Amendment rights is far more defensible than its decision upholding the disclosure requirements.

First, it is dubious whether the Constitution even gives Congress power to regulate the source and amount of campaign contributions and expenditures. The background and meaning of the Constitution’s “Time, Place and Manner Clause”—which Congress uses to justify such laws—strongly suggests not.

Second, the position of the more extreme leftists—that corporate speech is not protected by the First Amendment—is absurd to anyone who has studied the evidence. The position is inconsistent with the plain language of the First Amendment, which does not discriminate according to who is speaking. It is inconsistent with the Founders’ understanding of the terms “freedom of speech” and “freedom of the press.” It is factually inconsistent with the guarantee of a free press, because, of course, most newspapers and broadcast stations are incorporated. And it is inconsistent with decisions of the Court itself—particularly those written by “progressive” justices—that have upheld the First Amendment rights of corporations such as the New York Times and the NAACP.

Third, the position that “freedom of speech” is severable from spending money getting out your message is similarly absurd: Every communication except, perhaps screaming on the street corner, requires expenditure to be effective. Microphones have to be purchased. Writers have to be employed. Advertising space and time has to be bought. And so on.

We spend public time discussing such ridiculous arguments only because the Left is able to put them on the public agenda.

We would do far better talking about the other part of the Citizens United opinion—the part concluding that anonymous speech is not protected by the First Amendment. That is the much more questionable part of the decision.

Anonymous and pseudonymous expression was part of what the founding generation meant by “freedom of speech” and “freedom of the press.” Anonymous and pseudonymous essays were central to the debate over the Constitution itself. The Federalist Papers, the most famous product of those debates, were written under a pen name. So were most of the other important articles and pamphlets arguing for or against the Constitution.

There were, and are, a several good reasons why people wish to make their arguments without their names being known.

* They may wish their arguments to be considered on their merits without being dismissed because of who wrote them. During the Founding Era, this was commonly given as a reason for anonymity. It is a particularly important consideration today, when publicists have become experts at destroying the credibility of perfectly good arguments by vilifying their authors.

* Writers may fear retribution from unscrupulous and powerful persons and interest groups. This, also, is a very modern concern.

* Writers may wish to participate marginally in politics without letting it consume their lives. Anyone who has been flooded with phone calls from reporters knows how disruptive that can be. Forcing people to disclose their names discourages all from participating who do not wish to become public figures.

The Original Constitution

Get the Book Today!

What if an anonymous author abuses the First Amendment by hiding behind his anonymity to slander others? The Founding Generation had a good answer to that: the law of defamation. If the plaintiff had a decent case, he could sue the publisher of the article, and force the publisher to disclose the writer.

But occasional instances of abuse do not justify disclosure of those who are innocent of abuse.

In a fairer world, Citizens United would be a controversial case. But not because of the no-brainer ruling that people don’t give up their First Amendment rights when they incorporate. What would be controversial would be the Court’s refusal to protect the First Amendment right to contribute to the public debate without having one’s life destroyed.

One more point: Highlighting the corporate contribution part of the decision while ignoring the rest serves the purpose of inaccurately portraying the Court as “conservative.” But that’s a topic for another time.

Enjoyed This Post?

We cannot succeed without your help, as we will never accept government grants or handouts. Please help us by investing in the Constitution and freedom today!

Enjoyed This Post?

Leave a Reply

121 Responses to Free Speech: Corporate and Anonymous

  1. Milt Farrow October 1, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    I disagree with the writer entirely, the court should not have accepted creceiare, all it doid was muddied the waters and created the worst abuses of a now mercantile fascist state and permitted the outright ”buying of elections’ whoich was already 2/3rds on it’s way- The morons of SCOTUS are just fulfilling their obligations to their conservative “handlers” there is not a modicum of honesty left on the bench-Thomas should have been impeached and thrown off the bench for lying during the hearing as more information was belatedly  given by another female judge *Retiring _ who initially did not want the first black justice in a long time removed-I say poppycock- the bimbo should still be impeached-My dad , a simple man would say
    “Bought and paid for ” Bribery at it’s heights-

    • JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:27 pm #

       @Milt Farrow
       So, Milty, how are YOU going to fund Obama’s re-election campaign, if you cannot hire a corporate advertiser to write copy?

      • Milt Farrow October 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm #

         @JimGreaves
         Don’t patronize me you moron-who the hell cares-make it public-we are crashing as a living government anyway thanks to your people on PNAC who gave us “endless wars”  We need an entire change of the two party oligarchy that has destroyed the Constitution, and the economy We don’t need the Chamber of Commerce ( Horrors) as a paid governmental source-That is wht has brought us to ruin-That and the Global think tanks right down the block from government centers
        I guess you like being run by the CFR and the Tri-Lateral scumbags?
        I am willing to accept a parlimentary system-along with a new set of rules
        accompanied by “Madam  LaFarge” and that magnificent Government Management system “La Guillotine”-I would just let a huge model sit outside
        Congress- we also need to render useless all of the garbage executive orders and demand that president KEEPAYOUHANDSOFFA-

        • JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

           @Milt Farrow
           Executive orders comment: agree
          No. CFR and all those things you mention – garbage groups that need to meet Madame de Guillotine.
          What do chambers of commerce have to do with internationalism? They are groups from small towns to large cities that join together to further THEIR commerce interests. Apparently you see commerce as enemy. Too bad. Next time you go to the store for food, don’t expect it to be open.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:47 am #

          @JimGreaves@Milt FarrowRemember investors do not create jobs.  Customers with money do.  Our stores are full it is the customers which are lacking.  That means we need jobs here, unions, high pay decent conditions, accessible affordable education and strict rules on what cannot be done to our society by the powerful.
          The most successful business in the former USSR was the USSR. The stores were empty. And the bosses had all the power and influence they could grab.  There was no regulation.  It was removed.  Think our businessmen are any different?
           

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 1:54 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           JamesKoss – you are so full of shi-ite I can smell it all the way out here  in Montana. Investors DO create jobs. Ask Steve Jobs and Bill Gates who created the jobs that made them billionaires. It may well be the customers’ money, but someone had to front the investment in R&D, and it is NOT the job of government motors to do that!

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           JamesKoss – Your stores, if like typical ones throughout the country, that you claim are full of product, are full of product created in China, not the USA. If it were created here – like oil, gas, coal should be – we wouldn’t have a problem GETTING to the stores to buy what we NEED (or want). But, socialists have closed off all fuel options, and we sell ours to China (coal from Wyoming and Montana, for example). How does that coal benefit the Union of 50 states in America? It doesn’t. So factories close because they cannot afford to run on the over-priced, under-suppled leftovers. You should be applauding investors. You seem to care not for them.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 1:58 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           JamesKoss apparently forgot that the FORMER USSR collapsed for lack of internal interest on the parts of its own slaves to support their masters. Take away profit, you lose incentive to produce more than sustenance for the producer.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow Take away jobs and what will we get?

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

           @Milt Farrow
           I wasn’t patronizing you. I was challenging your assertions. Defend them or shut up. Don’t throw the French Revolution into this mix – it even scared the hell out of Jefferson, the most libertarian founder!

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:51 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow
           I forgot to answer Mr. Koss. What EXACTLY is your point about “take  away jobs”? Do you mean all the shovel-ready, dig it and fill it in jobs Obama created through unions; do you mean government jobs? What do you mean? Or are you just a troll from huffingperson-po?

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow MY DAD WORKED IN AUTO FACTORIES IN DETROIT.  THEY JOBS ARE NOT THERD ANY MORE.  OH GOODNESS, WHAT IN YOUR MIND EVER  HAPPENED TO THEM?

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow The profit did not go to the producers, just to the managers, who produce nothing.  It is happening here, now.  Just look around.  Detroit is a good starter.

      • JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

         @Milt Farrow
         Apparently you hate ALL politicians. So, how will you fund ANYONE’s campaign if not with MONEY? May we assume that you approve of the ability of policians to steal it from YOU, so that we can call it “publicly funded”? Sheesh. Crawl back under your computer table.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:53 am #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow 
          Steal?  My investment money PAYS for  a corporate spokesman to support causes I disbelieve in.  That is stealing my voice and using my profits for their cause, not mine.  Public funding comes with scrutiny.
          CORPORATE TONGUES GIVE NOT  A RAT’S ASS ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO SAY WITH THAT MONEY.
          And if you want to again and again repeat the lie that government spending is wasteful look at medical expenses.  I am in this business. Medicare overhead is so much less than private plans that if all the private money in health care were Medicare controlled we could have Universal Health Care NOW!  So don’t pull that lie out from the rug again.
          Your free market mantras may sound convincing but they are based on false premises.

        • West Texan October 2, 2012 at 12:18 pm #

          @JamesKoss@JimGreaves@Milt Farrow Mr. Koss, like many of your socialist wannabe fellows, you’ve confused government’s constitutional role with “free” market enterprise. If you don’t like what the latter represents, don’t do business with them. That’s your “free” choice. Unfortunately such a “free” association doesn’t exist with out-of-control central government, whose overreaching oppressive regulations and crony capitalism have driven the country toward the abyss of another great depression.  True American patriots will always take “free”dom over your wannabe “fief”dom. 

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow
           This is to JamesKoss – what “free market mantras” are you referring to? The ones YOU support are probably no different than mine: if as you say, you invest in business, then you should expect a return. I have NO problem with that. I DO have a problem with the government, through “obambi-care” taxing YOUR profits to pay for someone else’s lazy.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 2:04 pm #

           @West Texan  @JamesKoss  @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow
           Also might want to point out to Mr. Koss that “regulation of commerce” was NOT to limit it, but to make it more efficient and LESS cumbersome. That is, “make commerce passing from one state to the other” as easy and unencumbered as possible, with as little interference from the states or the Feds, so that everyone benefits from the commerce. Those on the “left” think “regulation of commerce” is supposed to be an impediment. Too bad. They should move to Cuba if they want that. Otherwise, they should stop calling the rest of us “moron”.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 6:35 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow Once upon a time the airways, public property, were obligated to give equal time to all candidates, FREE.  I twas part of the obligation coming form the privilege of using public airways.  Ronnny Baby killed that and gave it away.
          PUBLIC FINANCING STOPS SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP UNDUE INFLUENCE.  That upsets the propagandists.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:45 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           
          And that “freedom of the airwaves” (equal time) was DESIGNED to bankrupt those who disagreed with SOCIALISTS. You really do not know any history, do you? Just got opinions about everything, with no factual bases.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow
           JamesKoss — You mean like Union Bosses’ “special interest” is being legally permitted to unlawfully extort fees from workers, and then spend it any damned way they please? Of course they would be upset, if they could not get ME to pay as well for their politically corruptive practices.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:02 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow Explain this inanity.
           
          Where is your logic?.  Or illogic..

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @West Texan  @Milt Farrow I call no one moron.  I do question their logic and thought processes.  So easy to claim but none of them substantiate their claims.  try it sometime and qain respect.

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:38 am #

         @JimGreaves  @Milt Farrow PUBLIC FUNDING.
        If a business wishes to support Democracy let it donate to the common public fund.  That is not  a bribe.  That is democracy.  What we have now is purchased power.  My penny horn is drowned out by their billions of horns.  Who is listened to?  The loudest?  Those with the cash to buy all the horns, and all the laws.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           We are NOT a “democracy”, and we do NOT decide law by it. We, as a union of 50 states in America, are a republic, and the majority is not always a “simple” one. There are ample supply of “super-majoritarian” limits mentioned in the Union’s Constitution, as well as many/most/all the states’ constitutions. Democracy does NOT allow for those. You can always quit the Chamber of Commerce if you are in one…

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Milt Farrow
           So, Mr. Koss would limit my ability to band together with 3 MILLION NRA members and have the CEO (LaPierre) speak for us?! How is that not limiting the horn he decries? 3 million people PURCHASE member status in the NRA, so that the NRA CAN speak for us. Who the hell are you, MR. Koss, to tell US that we cannot ask a corporation to do that?

    • JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

       @Milt Farrow
       I’ll bet you LOVED the Obamacare decision by an equal 5-4 vote. What exactly are you trying to tell us about YOUR thought processes, assuming you have any.

      • JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

         @Milt Farrow
         US Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate commerce among the several states, of which campaign finances are a part, since [at least the Federal ones] are often inter-state in nature, having been promulgated by commerce within one state and then passed to others. “No” has nothing to do with it.

  2. JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Excellent article, lacking but one MAJOR part of the ruling that UPHELD the BAN on foreign money, which Obama continues to abuse.

    • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

      All the socialist-liberatarians here have completely ignored the FACT that Obama is violating one of the aspects of Campaign Finance Law which prohibits foreign contributions, as he heads hither and yon in Europe and his homeland, Kenya and its continent, in search of funds, because other than Bloomberg and Soros, he has no financially capable support.

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:05 pm #

         @JimGreaves Prove that accusation with facts.

  3. JimGreaves October 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    Excellent article, and while some may disagree about the conclusions reached, the fact is “free speech” is absolute – including yelling fire in a crowed theater (what if the theater IS on fire?). It but lacks one MAJOR part of the ruling, that which UPHELD the BAN on foreign money being permitted in our elections, something which Obama continues to abuse.

  4. JamesKoss October 1, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

    HIS ARGUMENT IS SPECIOUS.  
    IT DOES NOT ENHANCE HUMAN FREEDOMS, INDIVIDUALS, NOR WE THE PEOPLE,
    WHICH WAS WHY THIS NATION WAS CREATED.
     
    A CORPORATION IS  JUST A PIECE OF PAPER WITH LOTS OF POWER TO DESTROY OR CHANGE AT WILL WHAT HUMANS CREATED TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, NOT A PIECE OF PAPER.
     
    MONEY IS WHAT VOTES NOW.  IT IS A MAN WHO SHOULD DO THE VOTING.  
     
    CORPORATIONS AS WE KNOW THEM DID NOT EVEN EXIST WHEN THE FOUNDERS WROTE THE FEDERALIST PAPERS.  THEY ARE CREATIONS OF HUMANS, NOT GODS.
     
    THEY ARE MAN MADE, LIKE HAL IN THE FILM 2001.
    IF WE DEVELOP FUNCTIONING ROBOTS DO THEY ALSO GET THE RIGHT TO VOTE?
    AND WHO DIRECTS THEIR VOTE?
    THE RULE IS ONE, REMEMBER-ONE  MAN (OR WOMAN) , ONE VOTE.  
     
    COMPANIES DO NOT HAVE A LARYNX.  HOW THEN CAN THEY SPEAK?  
    CORPORATIONS DO NOT DIE, GET DRAFTED, WORK, GET JAILED,
    NOR EVEN EXIST EXCEPT ON PAPER.  PAPER HUMANS MADE.  
    SOME THINK THEY  HAVE THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO CONTROL THOUGHT AND GOVERNMENT?
     
    IT IS LUDICROUS TO BELIEVE A NON-ENTITY, A MAN CREATED NON-LIVING OBJECT, SHOULD HAVE POWER OVER HUMAN BEINGS BECAUSE IT CAN AMASS MOUNTAINS OF WEALTH.
     
     
     
     
     

    • Michael Boldin October 1, 2012 at 3:40 pm #

       @JamesKoss The argument is not about whether or not human freedom is expanded, primarily – it’s about how the Constitution applies, which is what this organization is about.
       
      But then again – the author makes some very specific points about how ANONYMOUS speech is an essential part of human freedom.  Examples are given too.  Are you not in favor of protections for those activities?

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:35 am #

         @Michael Boldin Again one (wo)man one vote one voice.
        Corporations now can speak for millions, none of whom are consulted re the message their dollars are funding.
        We gave the reins of government back to the royalty which once before governed as they wished, for their benefit only, and used the serfs and peasants as their warriors and servants.  We are returned to this state when a dead thing, a paper body, can dominate elections with their amassed wealth.
        Again I ask:  if a corporation is man’s creation and can influence elections then once we create robots may they also?
        The argument is cloaked in constitutionality.  Yet the founders severely limited corporate power.  They did not trust them.  If we admire the sagacity and wisdom of the framers and the Constitution they wrote and ratified, why not pay attention  also to their warnings?
        Selective consideration is not intelligent consideration.  Cloaking this discussion with free speech as if it was applicable to anything or any group which yields excessive power or influence is not Constitutional.  Kings had excessive power and influence, so did the Church.  Both had to be reined in to give individuals freedoms.  Arguments against control of giant power groups return us to those times.

        • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 3:08 pm #

           @JamesKoss  @Michael Boldin
           JamesKoss is AGAIN full of bull crap. The members of the NRA, for example, KNOW exactly where their money is being spent, and those who give more than mere membership EXPECT it to be spent for the purposes for which it was donated. In many cases to represent, in an accumulation of contributions, the contributors so that the VOICE of the individual is not drowned out, as Mr. Koss seems to fear, by those (like UNIONS) which have far more powerful voices than any single person.

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @Michael Boldin Is that also true for the money big corporations direct to whom ever the big wigs desire.  And you will of course guarantee me each stockholder is asked what candidate or position the corporation should support-right?  Funny I am never asked.  You must be special.

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

         @Michael Boldin I get confused by new opinions of why the US constitution was written.  It seems it never mentioned business nor corporations nor God but did deal with individual (read:  people’s) rights and freedoms.  It rebelled against a small body of powerful individuals who held most of the power. they don’t forget held all the power and defined right or wrong according to their whims and wishes.

    • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:41 pm #

       @JamesKoss
       When someone starts to write in all caps, I stop reading. Get a grip, and converse with all of us, or shut the hell up.

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:27 pm #

         @JimGreaves IT PENETRATES THICK SKULLS.

  5. rickj2 October 1, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    So far, I see no posted answer to the problem of corporate control over elections. My offering is to dispense with this fiction that a corporation is a PERSON. A corporation is just  a grouping and aggregation of financial interests. Limit political contributions to only REGISTERED VOTERS. This would also eliminate offshore financing. Whether or not they should be made public is a different question. I lean toward disclosure at a certain limit – say all contributions higher than the median contribution.
     
    The argument about corporate “free speech” is problematical when one considers which individual with a corporate share(s) is speaking, and if even one individual with a single share of stock in a corporation with millions of shareholders does not wish his or anyone else to politically speak, what gives the corporate board the right to do so in someone else’s name? A financial interest share is not the same as an authority to “speak politically” for others. Corporations are not political bodies;  but allowing them to finance candidates brings them into a condition of a facsimile which should not exist if we value free and democratic polities.

    • Michael Boldin October 1, 2012 at 3:39 pm #

       @rickj2 well that’s a separate discussion.  This article is about the Constitutional basis.  Now just because something is “constitutional” doesn’t mean it’s good policy.  And, that doesn’t mean that states can’t make decisions in this realm either.  Whether they should or not is another conversation, though.

    • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

       @rickj2
       Rick — there is no such thing as a non-peopled corporation. I challenge you to show one.

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:31 pm #

         @JimGreaves  @rickj2 Show me a peopled one, living, breathing, having kids and finally dying.

  6. JayEdgar October 1, 2012 at 2:19 pm #

    I agree with the author in everything – except its not just the left who attack freedom of speech. The right is just as guilty. The authors of the constitution had political speech specifically in mind when the First Amendment was written. They did not expect my political activities and expenditures to be reported, tracked, and limited by the federal government. How anyone can believe that controlling political speech is not repugnant is beyond my scope of understanding.

    • Michael Boldin October 1, 2012 at 3:38 pm #

       @JayEdgar I agree – both sides are pretty bad on this issue.

  7. onetenther October 1, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

    I don’t understand why businesses should be excluded from the political process itself.  I keep hearing the argument that it is bad for the government but many of the laws regarding the conduct of businesses affect them so why shouln’t they have a right to participate in the process itself?  To say no is really saying that I or anyone else should not have the right to affect legislation when that legislation directly affects my own life.  
     
    We never wonder WHY businesses would have a vested interest in the laws themselves.  I have explained the reason why above and if we had no laws regulating business then they would have no reason to even care what happens in any government office.  Just look at states that have very few regulations and see how much time businesses spend talking to their legislators.  The less regulations the less time they spend at the capital building.  They would much rather spend their time thinking of ways to make money–not trying to fight laws that harm them.

    • West Texan October 2, 2012 at 7:27 am #

       @onetenther A very good point made. I’ll add that VOLUNTARY organizations like the NRA speak on my behalf. That’s the primary reason I joined with millions of other members to spread our message. Sadly, “progressive” demagogues continue to attack said lobbying groups making it personal for folks like myself. And please note I said VOLUNTARY, not forced by labor union corruption.     

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:32 pm #

         @West Texan  @onetenther Oh but not corporate donations-right?

    • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:16 am #

       @onetenther ONE GOOD REASON IS ARE THEY EVEN HONEST?  IF NOT HOW TO MAKE THEM SO. For example look at Prop 32 in California and its deception, its goal is to deny free speech to Unions and not to corporations,
      Read this:   Prop 32 prohibits the collection of “political funds” from corporate employees and union members via payroll deduction.
      Corporations hardly ever use payroll deductions for political purposes; they simply cut a check from their corporate treasuries. 
      They don’t even need shareholder approval. 
      Unions on the other hand? Every penny they spend on politics comes from payroll deductions, which are just small-dollar contributions from folks like firefighters, nurses and teachers. These are pooled together to fight back against the power of millionaires and corporate CEOs. 
      Prop 32 is a deceptive attempt to silence the voices of the 2.5 million middle-class union members in California. Labor unions are the only organizations capable of mounting a fight against the corporations that dominate our political process, and even so, they are
       
      outspent 15-1.4 
      It gets worse,
      Prop 32 EXEMPTS common business structures such as LLCs, partnerships and real estate trusts. That’s why we call it the “Special Exemptions Act.”
       
      YOU REALLY WANT FOLKS LIKE THIS CONTROLLING YOUR GOVERNMENT AND YOU?
       
      An historical note:  
      Big business interests supported Hitler.
      He was to destroy Unions and control pay and squelch demonstrations and dissent.
      He was to do their dirty work.
      They figured on kicking him out after it was accomplished.
      Read your history.  
      Just in case you didn’t it failed to work out that way.
      The world was gifted with WWII.
      Those are the folks whose judgment you want to trust?

      • onetenther October 2, 2012 at 6:26 pm #

         @JamesKoss OK so what?  Just because a person attempts to deceive someone doesn’t mean they can no longer participate in the political process.  If that is your reason for thinking it is OK to ban corporate money then why can’t we use the same justification for unions that do the same thing? 

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

           @onetenther Money speaks, More money speaks loudest.  remove money from elections and see where truth then lies.

      • onetenther October 2, 2012 at 6:28 pm #

         @JamesKoss On a historical note–Hitler was a national Socialist and he did the same thing that the communist did which was to crush unions. 

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

           @onetenther Funny.  What a coincidence!  And so did Bush, Reagan, Scott Walker and so will  Romney.  Good bedfellows-for fellow travelers.

      • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

         @JamesKoss  @onetenther
         You really are confused. Do you even file Schedule C?

        • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:01 pm #

           @JimGreaves  @onetenther Is it important?  Did you ever remofve an appendix?

      • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

         @JamesKoss  @onetenther
         You really are confused James. Do you even file Schedule C?

  8. West Texan October 2, 2012 at 7:05 am #

    As an anti-federalist disciple, I couldn’t agree more with Dr. Natelson’s position on anonymous authorship. He makes a very good case for why using pseudonyms is both “proper and necessary”. Another deserved Bravo Zulu for his insightful article. 

    • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:57 pm #

       @West Texan Insecure people like to define themselves according to another’s definition.  think for yourself, don’t let others tell you what label you should follow and wave its banner.  They also like to use labels to defame other’s ideas.  Usually with little depth of understanding of either.

      • West Texan October 3, 2012 at 11:15 am #

         @JamesKoss  @West Texan What are you talking about? Did you read the author’s blog? I will agree the term anti-federalist was a projected misnomer, much like what you’ve attempted to do in your reply.    

  9. JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:25 am #

    Multiple delusions in these replies.
    The US was formed for people not for corporations.  Until corporations got their power augmented as they continue to do now they were limited in scope and longevity.  If one wishes to go to the founders for guidance look no further.
    If one decides to designate business as the guiding power in America Mussolini would smile.
    His definition of Fascism:  When state and corporate interests coincide.
    We were told we defeated Fascism in WWII.  Nonsense: we just imported it from its birth place.

    • JimGreaves October 2, 2012 at 6:37 pm #

       @JamesKoss
       Now, now. An LLC can be a ONE person corporation. Why should that not be afforded the same rights as the OWNER of that corporation?

      • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

         @JimGreaves It is not human!  Jeze do you need biology lessons?

      • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 8:30 pm #

        ME ME.  Chose me!  I know the answer!   Because it’s a corporation owned by an ATTORNEY!  VERY E-V-I-L!

  10. deafy October 2, 2012 at 7:32 am #

    One thing that troubles me most is the idea that the “corporations” are people, with rights. I have hard time believing that is what the Constitution or the Fathers meant.
    Corporations are phantoms made by the government, and completely separate from the reality that America is a nation of real people who got together and wrote the Constitution for themselves.
    Even in our census, we do count people, and never the corporations!

  11. rickj2 October 2, 2012 at 9:18 am #

    Considering Medicare and any other insurance schemes, about 8 years ago I went to a lung M.D. (Pulmonologist ?). When it came time to pay the bill, I advised that I did not have insurance, so they gave me a 40% discount. High health care costs are a problem endemic and originating from third party payer systems.

    • JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 9:59 am #

       @rickj2 When you go to a hotel there is a RACK RATE (100%) and a commercial rate (deep discount), AARP and AAA rates (discounted) and a negotiated rate if near empty or late at night and not full.
      Medical bills are the same.  Your discount came off the “rack rate.”  Why?  If you paid with money no paperwork was needed to get the payment from increasingly stingy payers, who delay and delay, return forms for the t’s to be crossed, and make collection miserable.
      Medicare pays rapidly.  Its overhead is much less than private insurance.  It negotiates low rates.  Not allowed to negotiate  Bush decisions forbid discounted prescriptions for the elderly.  A gift to big Pharma.  A screw job for the poor and elderly.
      CAN ONE TRUST BUSINESS TO DO THE RIGHT THING?
       

  12. CamilliaOlson October 2, 2012 at 9:56 am #

     If Congress were to uphold the law, and nullify Federal  Reserve Act and allow every bona fide resident citizen to be a shareholder of the Usa Treasury, ( for the people , by the people )  with honest weights and measures as a security for the the people .( redeemable paper ). ( independence  for the people )  and not dependence on banks-ters,( with Congress accountable to the people ,  That might solve the problem.. AS it is , I would run a campaign on no unconstitutional money to be used or accepted..  and  any  donations to go to a grain reserve for the State and it ‘s people . since the Usa grain reserve is not sufficient for a years reserve… in times of famine etc..  if one’s intent is to serve in the interests of the people and not  corporate interests.. at the expense of  the people  and as to recognize and uphold the law that governs for the cause of truth, liberty , order  and peace ..                                                             http://www.S-HeritageInternationalConsultingInc.com .

  13. JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:08 pm #

    Just tell the starving homeless evicted about their freedoms.
    They are living in someone’s fief now and have been for a long time.
    and you?  How’s it going?  For the  majority of Americans,those who built, fought, were wounded, some died, they aren’t doing so well.  Explain why.

  14. JamesKoss October 2, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    Sieg Heil.  Hitler spoke for  millions too.  So did Goebbles.  So?  

  15. gypsynovus October 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm #

    I’m not quite sure where you’re headed with this, but it appears as though your thesis is an oversimplified attempt to evoke protection for an alleged victim in a slander case.  I looked this up to clarify in my own mind why such a proposition might be valid against freedom of speech, and it appears to me that while the local courts, more reflective of their immediate surroundings, favor your view, the supreme courts does not.
     
    While the lower courts seem to be more practical, there are a couple arguments the supreme court believes should prevail over local and often times highly culturally biased speech which the only way to confront this is via abstract discussion and advocacy.  With this in mind, while a writer may in fact be off the mark, the context in which the alleged offensive speech occurred is often times protected.  The 1st amendment would be useless if it didn’t provide some protection for public debate.
     
    On the other hand commercial speech is NOT protected by the 1st amendment regardless of the corporation’s status under the 13th.  While a corporation could make a 10th amendment claim on this issue, it’s for profit status leans too heavily on the individual to make public debate viable for a non-corporate respondent.
     
     
     
     

    • JamesKoss October 3, 2012 at 4:54 pm #

       @gypsynovus I admire your style.  It is educational not blaming nor labeling as too many seem to rely on to make a point.
       
      thanks,

      • gypsynovus October 5, 2012 at 9:30 pm #

        @JamesKoss  @gypsynovus ^5

    • West Texan October 4, 2012 at 7:25 am #

       @gypsynovus Whether for profit, or non-profit, corporations rightfully have a vested interest in central government’s decisions. Of course, 1913′s power grabbing progressives stripped states of their voice via the 17th Amendment. Why not rally the mob to do the same with private corporations? U.S. Chief Justice Earl Warren supported this cultural perversion by ignoring the whole concept of representative republicanism. Which was a fair system of limited and separate powers wisely established by our country’s founders.
       
      Could you please clarify your statement ” …regardless of the corporation’s status under the 13th.”.  

      • gypsynovus October 5, 2012 at 9:56 pm #

        @West Texan hahaha hahaha… Situational laughter here, sorry.  Do know I am not laughing at you.  To me it’s simple, but I know people don’t get it.  Why they don’t get it is funny.  The 13th amendment is a syllogism.  WHAM!  hahaha
         
        Here’s my response to your question:  http://youtu.be/G1v-Lq9oeXE

  16. pentale October 4, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

    Nullify the 14th Amendment and this nightmare will disappear.  The unlawful 14th Amendment, never ratified according to Article V of the Constitution is being interpreted by the left that a corporation is a person. The 1st Amendment was written to give protection to “State Citizens” of their respective state.  “State Citizens “ was and is a real life, living and breathing individual.  The unlawful 14th Amendment created a corporate person known as a “US citizen.”   “State Citizens have been tricked into being a “US citizen,” a corporate person.  See apenstale.wordpress.com

    • JamesKoss October 5, 2012 at 8:36 am #

      @pentale Not a lawyer I cannot judge veracity of this explanation.   I am told the SCOUS decision this rests on was condensed by a  court clerk.  His words said corps are people.  I am told reading the full SCOUS decision it says no such thing. If true why not reopen it?  I suspect those who finance our “leaders” prefer it to remain as is.

      • gypsynovus October 5, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

        @JamesKoss  @pentale Try not to react to this.  You are self-censoring, which means you do not understand the 1st amendment.  Formulate an opinion and stand your ground.  In a public debate you don’t have to be an expert.  It’s also a vocational application of language and thinking, which this was taken into consideration when it was written.  In other words, you don’t have to be a genius to assert yourself, and you may even influence the thinking of others with your ideas.  Argument gets at subtlety that would otherwise remain buried in ignorance.  Apply yourself to the problem.  You want to do this, which     why you’re here.  Go for it!

  17. gypsynovus October 5, 2012 at 10:16 pm #

    A couple of things.  The Mormon church was Britain’s first repatriation project in the US.  Brigham Young was in the tank with the monarchy.  Smith was a patsy and an opportunity to seal the church with a martyr.  The civil war was engineered to move the lucrative cotton industry overseas.  With this in mind, the reconstruction amendments were Britain’s continuation of Her repatriation effort and set us up for the Fed and CFR, but people aren’t making these connections.  What you are going to eventually learn is the Mormon church is the negative core of the Fed, and the LDS church president is the equivalent of the pope, hence the recreation of the Vatican in US domestic infrastructure which was prohibited by the founders. On the darker side, and people DO NOT like to talk about this, the Mormon church is a Druid black mass culture.  Readers are going to deny this.  It’s ciphered in the Brief analysis on the Book of Mormon.  American are fools!

    • pentale October 9, 2012 at 5:00 pm #

      @gypsynovus   I have asked you, gypsynovus , form whence can we verify your charges against the Mormon Church.  I am not Mormon, but am vitally interested in the historical aspect.  Where can I find your proof?

      • gypsynovus October 9, 2012 at 11:23 pm #

        @pentale  @gypsynovus  Let’s start with specific questions.  You ask, and I’ll do my best to answer.  Just please be very focused.  I won’t be able to field your question if it’s too broad.

    • pentale October 9, 2012 at 5:02 pm #

      @gypsynovus  You can find proof of my nullification of the 14th Amendment @  Aspenstale,wordpress. com.

  18. JohnMohr October 7, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

    I wonder if indeed the bill of rights pertains to corporations … are there original sources to support this? I am not sure but the logic of affording corporations same status as physical persons seems faulty at best. On the one hand, a physical person is 100% free to the extent of the bill of rights, and100% liable for transgressions of law. A corproation is not 100% liable. A corporation can never attain the level of freedom enjoyed by an individual , since logically it can represent its constituent parts to a degree approaching but not 100% including the rights (and limitations) of those parts. (Power of attorney, agent) By recognizing the protections of free speech (and other fundamental rights) to the physical persons making it, but not the impersonal corporations through which they make it, we achieve accountability at a human level without abusing the rights of people themselves. FOr people are always able to act independently should the restrictions of the corporate entity not satisfy their needs. Imagine what this would mean in respect of campaign finance, environmental pollution, …. corporate responsibility in general. I say this as a hardcore libertarian: enforce the natural rights and obligations of people fully, but do NOT transfer them with the same breadth to limited liability, opaque corporations. I hold this to be a significantly more internally-logical position than granting these pseudo people the same rigthts and responsibilities of real people.

    • JamesKoss October 8, 2012 at 5:58 am #

      @JohnMohr  A good response.  Logic in an argument is a welcome site.  hanks.

      • West Texan October 8, 2012 at 10:50 am #

        @JamesKoss  @JohnMohr If you’re looking for logic, read the actual words of the 1st amendment. No where does this amendment limit speech only to individuals.

    • JamesKoss October 8, 2012 at 5:59 am #

      @JohnMohr   Sorry, poor spelling due to hasty typing early in this am.

    • West Texan October 8, 2012 at 8:05 am #

      @JohnMohr You said ” …granting these pseudo people the same rigthts [sic] and responsibilities of real people.”.
       
      I know it’s incredible to your self described “hardcore libertarian” logic, but corporations are a plurality of real people. And yes, they do and should have free speech rights under their corporate entity. The same individuals enjoy.

      • gypsynovus October 11, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

        @West Texan  @JohnMohr Not the same, because they are overwhelmingly organized and very powerful is such a way that an individual could not stand against one in a public debate.  This is why corporations have a tough time suing individuals who attack them with criticism, regardless of weather it’s deserved or not.  For example, if I were to accuse you of eating children, you could sue me for defamation.  On the other hand, I have accused McDonalds of formulating a value meal product manufactured from pureed human fetus, and they can’t touch me, because I have a natural interest in preserving humanity against the macabre practice of eating one’s own species.  Be3side, it true, and they Wouldn’t touch this with a billion dollars in resources except to resource an assassin, which they do this, too.

    • gypsynovus October 8, 2012 at 10:32 pm #

      @JohnMohr With limitations.  The problem isn’t personhood so much as how the 14th amendment played into the Fed.

    • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 8:53 am #

      @JohnMohr  There were three opportunities for corporatism to establish itself in the US.  the Vatican, which the founders prohibited, East India Company (AKA Skull and Bones) and the Mormon church, which the latter recreated the Vatican with an Islamic twist.  You could have as many virgins as you liked, which this was engineered to penetrate and diffuse protestantism thus precipitating the UK’s repatriation of America.  The Mormon church is the premier false flag domestic terrorism organization on the world and is steadily taking over corporate America via the CIA.  The Mormon church OWNS the CIA.  This was a Mormon enterprise mitigated by intervention from Quatuor Coronati in the UK.   AH HA!  The Mormon church is a repatriation project!  AH HA!  And, people still don’t get it.

      • JamesKoss October 10, 2012 at 10:26 am #

        @gypsynovus  @JohnMohr You need good proof to claim this as true.

        • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

          @JamesKoss  You’re lazy.  Go play with yourself.

      • pentale October 10, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

        Where can I get more info on your stances on the Mormon Church.  I am not Mormon.   I wish to study your material. .    @gypsynovus  @JohnMohr

        • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 4:14 pm #

          Your question reminds me of something the East India company used to do to avoid paying tariffs on human cargo.  When they came under scrutiny of the military at port of call they would anchor and throw these individuals overboard tethered to a rope and drown them. Prove they had a cargo!  I don’t have a stance on the Mormon church.  I know their protocol.  Learn it, and you will understand what I know.  The Mormon church is a repatriation project, and it is a hybrid SSO principled in Christianity, Islam and Druid mysticism.  This organization is likewise the negative core of the CIA and has come up in the US what the founders had attempted to stop by prohibiting the Vatican from establishing itself in the US.  In this latter regard, it’s a scaled down version of the Vatican with the church president having the same Godly powers as the pope. It is perverted to attempt to make a reality argument out of this, not that this reflects on you, but people generally want it spelled out for them so they don’t have to  think.  You have to study this stuff to know it, so don’t expect someone to walk up and hand you the golden key to Mormon knowledge because you are special.  This is a fraud based faith what actual mission in the US is our repatriation.  what’s amazing to me is people don;t connect to the plural marriage issue.  They used sex bait to build a following.  Now where else do we know people think like this where adult males take children by the numbers for wives?  When you smell a stench in the air and have to have proof that what you are scenting on is rancid, you may very well be dead before you get  your proof, and I am afraid this is what we are dealing with regarding the Mormon church.  You are wasting your time asking for a sign post.  If September 11, 1857 in connection with August 31 1888 and September 11, 2001 doesn’t awaken your mind you are playing at having a conscience that will be decades in the making before you can even generate the question necessary to press yourself into this with meaning.  go have an ice cream and enjoy a Disney movie on me, or start asking the questions that matter.  I’m a book.  Try me out.

    • onetenther October 10, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

      @JohnMohr It is true that a corporation is not a person.  That is obvious but the issue is how far does the first amendment extend to?  Does it cover just persons or does it also cover specific legal chargers aka corporations.   The first amendment is pretty clear that no laws can forbid freedom of speech.  I assume that would mean corporate laws that govern the actions of corporations.   Since corporations, by their charter and the laws that govern them, are governed by laws then congress can’t forbid a law that bans how corporations communicate with each other. 
       
      The second point is that if you believe that the first amendment doesn’t apply to corporations then what about news agencies?  Those are corporations.  Are they protected under the first amendment’s freedom of the press?   Perhaps we can pass a corporate regulation that says news agencies can’t say anything negative about the government?  THey can use the same logic you are saying in that news corps are not people therefore they are not covered by the first amendemnt.

  19. JamesKoss October 8, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    The Constitution was written for We the People, not they the corporation.

    • West Texan October 9, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

      @JamesKoss “We the People …” essentially referred to a “corporate” inspired  government with limited and separate powers. Not the socialist wannabes’ paradigm of a large bureaucracy. The Bill of Rights reinforced said limitations by clearly stating, “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press …”. The latter usually being incorporated themselves. It’s not government’s prerogative to silence any person, group, organization or corporation’s voice.

    • gypsynovus October 9, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

      @JamesKoss 13th and 14th amendments and the Fed changed this.  People went along with these changes.  Today we are living the nightmare of these changes, and stupid Americans are STILL going along with it.  Debauchery is it’s own reward, and the more of it we buy into the further these macabre laws take root beneath the infrastructure of the constitution and bill of rights in the form of progressivism cum liberalism cum neopolitics.  The latter three are a name game, but they are all the same nonetheless.

  20. West Texan October 9, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

    “We the People …” essentially referred to a “corporate” inspired  government with limited and separate powers. Not the socialist wannabes’ paradigm of a large bureaucracy. The Bill of Rights reinforced said limitations by clearly stating, “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press …”. The latter usually being incorporated themselves. It’s not government’s prerogative to silence any person, group, organization or corporation.

    • JamesKoss October 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm #

      @West Texan I think you like to twist ideas your way.
       
      Corporations were not trusted, had very limited rights and limited existence until corporate wealth, influence and power changed that in the US.  Their existence was permitted as they could do some good for the nation.  They were not people nor had person/hood until corporate power and wealth twisted their purpose and rights.  Indeed they were held suspect.  Read a little history and the founders thoughts if your refer to their intent and that era.  I see only threat from the concentrated power of amassed wealth controlled by a small number of people and poured into legal and legislative decisions, elections and propaganda.  That is not democratic, it is plutocratic,  authoritarian and very anti/individual.
      I doubt  if the founders would condone such localized and concentrated power.

      • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 8:43 am #

        @JamesKoss  @West Texan Agree w/JK.

      • onetenther October 10, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

        @JamesKoss  @West Texan Really?  The last time I checked corporations had very little ability to make me do things involuntarily.  Making people do things involuntarily is power since force is what is needed to get them to do things they don’t want to do.  I’ve never experienced an involuntary relationship with a corporation until obamacare.  What does it matter if a corporation is a person or not when the first amendment makes no exceptions over what is speaking.   It does not say congress shall pass no law violating a person’s right of free-speech.   It says any entities right to communicate.  That would include corporatations and even if you said otherwise the actions that corporations do are dictated by the CEOs who are also people.  I know you don’t consider them human beings but there is a lot of scientific evidence that suggest that CEOs descended from the same gene pool as poor and middle-class folk.

        • West Texan October 11, 2012 at 10:46 am #

          @onetenther Good response. I honestly don’t understand why some folks here fail to to grasp the fundamentals of a corporation. The inane commentary attacking corporate America is nothing more than mean spirited gossip directed toward a targeted boogeyman. Seeking the truth and/or knowing facts doesn’t matter to these self-described theoreticians and all knowing historians. Your thoughtful input is very much appreciated. Thank you, WT

  21. JohnMohr October 10, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    JK, the last part of your last post seems inherently in conflict … how can natural rights be abridged under any conditions? The answer is not to be found in overiding libertarian philosophical purity, but rather enforcing it. In other words, let the wealthy pay to put their people into power, but then let those politicians and ceos act in the name of the people not their benefactors – remove the artifial immunity that is generally accepted by all agents of all organizations today. Imagine polticians held responsible for the demolition of Granny’s home, or the illegal arrest of someone who looks and acts a bit different then the rest of us. Imagine CEOs held responsible for the dumping of chemicals into a river (regardless of whatever is permitted by a pro-pollution EPA). Don’t you think that if CEOs and politicians were held accoutnable for their actions that they would assume far less power, reducing the capacity for destruction you criticize in government and corporations? This can be achieved without compromising libertarian philosophy.

  22. JamesKoss October 10, 2012 at 6:31 am #

    ” how can natural rights be abridged under any conditions? ”
     
    Let’s look at some examples, starting with Russia, Germany, and now with the US forbidding demonstrations-here.  It is not insidious.
     
    So when an immense amount of power is given to a small group wielding the wealth to alter elections directly by the infusion of money it is not difficult to see it  occur.
     
     
    Your stance panders about with a sense that the guy with the biggest sword has a right to swing it where and when he wishes.
     
    You play with theoretical words trying to join a piece of paper with real people and their needs as if the paper people know best for all the others.
     
    Germany Industrialists backed Hitler.  They were sure once they got what they wanted he could be dealt with.  Caution and protection of the US which I believe you care for means look carefully at the effects of your thoughts and beliefs.

    • JohnMohr October 10, 2012 at 7:01 am #

      @JamesKoss
      i think you misunderstood – the question was rhetorical … our natural rights should NOT be abridged under any conditions as a matter of principle because this opens the door to abuse. This is clear from the context which goes on to explain the very point you are chastizing me for in your post.

    • gypsynovus October 11, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

      @JamesKoss re “… how can natural rights be abridged under any conditions? “  Very simple answer: the debauchery pledge.

  23. JamesKoss October 10, 2012 at 6:46 am #

    “Don’t you think that if CEOs and politicians were held accoutnable (sic) for their actions that they would assume far less power, reducing the capacity for destruction you criticize in government and corporations? This can be achieved without compromising libertarian philosophy.”
     
    Nice in theory, sort of like thinking the bully on the block will behave once he has full control!
     
    In fact once corporate money gets into politics it gets done what directly benefits its profits only.  We lose protections: EPA is weakened, SEC is diminished in protection of investors, DEA and FDA lose investigators and turn the responsibly of research over to the ,”good guys” already proven “honest, and well intentioned in your eyes(Prozac ?).  The IRS numbers are reduced directed to the Middle Income group, ignoring Corporate tax filings.  A very noble thing you may think.  I do not trust power.  I do not trust immense power even more.  To remain independent and free we need a strong regulatory state with independently educated, not propagandized, voters and certainly not corporately  influenced via immense amounts of their money and near total control of US information sources dominating our information and that propaganda influencing citizen knowledge.  Commerce sees one goal, profits, at near any cost, as long as their interests are taken in to account.
     
    Remember the Wiemar experience before you turn the government and its power over to a small number of influential power structures you allege are equivalent to you and me in influence and whose wishes are pure and just.
     
    And this influence you wish to enhance further?
     
    That is why we once had checks and balances.
     
    ONE MAN ONE VOTE.
    That by the way is read as 1.
    Not a corporate board deciding.

    • West Texan October 10, 2012 at 8:16 am #

      @JamesKoss  You wrote “To remain independent and free we need a strong regulatory state…” What??? You want empirical evidence, move to Cuba. Talk about propaganda. “One man, one vote” came from U.S. Supreme Justice Earl Warren, a socialist wannabe progressive. He was the same guy as California’s AG who participated in the internment of American citizens of Japanese ancestry. Yea, he claims to have regretted his actions in later life. Sadly, it didn’t help those folks who were harmed by this misdeed. I for one regret his reapportionment decision as it favored mob rule over our founders’ wise framework of a representative republic.

      • JamesKoss October 10, 2012 at 12:04 pm #

        @West Texan Cuba is not regulatory, it is totalitarian.  There is a difference you know.  Were our votes to really count, ie/ one (wo)man one vote a regulatory government could be for our benefit.  With tons of influential cash corporate types have usurped the process.  As it is now and could be worse soon, we areregulated by a small number of very rich powerful individuals and organizations against which “We the people” cannot compete, just as if the US were a totalitarian country.  You seem to support this.  Read history my friend.  The process is called Fascism, exactly as Mussolini defined it.
         
        “Talk about propaganda. “One man, one vote” came from U.S. Supreme Justice Earl Warren,”
        Are you against progress, democratization of government or prefer we go back to a slave being 3/5th of a white man in the South and cannot vote?  The owner did it for the slave!
         
        Now the corporation tells us which two we can pick.  The Soviets at least could say none of the above!
         
        Oh yes, Cuba has free good health care and education too!
         
        Seems to me a decent nation would and could do this instead of spread useless death and destruction around the globe and destroy its working and middle classes at home.

      • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 1:57 pm #

        @West Texan  @JamesKoss  Have to agree with WT.  Some of you people think the world revolves around you.  That’s low IQ.  Go chase down your own proof and your tail while you are at it.

  24. JamesKoss October 10, 2012 at 8:12 am #

    OK but it was unclear.  Sometimes one just needs to take a solid stance.  Mine is corporations are not people, they have undue power to influence, and no heart nor soul.  They are a danger to a free nation and a free people.

    • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

      @JamesKoss I think a lot of people would agree with that.  Corporations are way to powerful, and they aren’t held the same standards of accountability as ordinary people.  Here’s my remedy.  Corporations have to give back 10% of the earnings (NOT PROFITS) to the people, which this can be in the form of employment to the under-privileged.  Attorneys have to do this to licence.  There.  We just ended poverty in America.  This really would work, but it would likewise loosen the elite’s grip on mankind, which is why they don’t force this policy.  Corporations assure we will always have masters.  I refer to this as feudal economics, which it is.  Keynesian economics is predatory and consolidates independent systems to control wealth.  We come from the sun, my friend.  Know this ahead an everything else you have learned about this planet, and you will become a leader.  Then you have to watch your back.  This is what happened to the Cathers.

  25. pentale October 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm #

    “A couple of things.  The Mormon church was Britain’s first repatriation project in the US.  Brigham Young was in the tank with the monarchy.  Smith was a patsy and an opportunity to seal the church with a martyr.  The civil war was engineered to move the lucrative cotton industry overseas.  With this in mind, the reconstruction amendments were Britain’s continuation of Her repatriation effort and set us up for the Fed and CFR, but people aren’t making these connections.  What you are going to eventually learn is the Mormon church is the negative core of the Fed, and the LDS church president is the equivalent of the pope, hence the recreation of the Vatican in US domestic infrastructure which was prohibited by the founders. On the darker side, and people DO NOT like to talk about this, the Mormon church is a Druid black mass culture.  Readers are going to deny this.  It’s ciphered in the Brief analysis on the Book of Mormon.  American are fools!”  gypsynovus   
     
    How can I follow up on your info on the above?  Historical reasons.

    • gypsynovus October 10, 2012 at 4:34 pm #

      Look, I can prove to you that the Mormon church is occult.  My research is fairly simple application of their own occult protocol.  But YOU have to get beyond the limitation of thinking inside the box of proofs.  Literalism is a low level of comprehension.  You have to loft meta to learn this, then you have to have the courage to share it against being derailed by their myriad SSO affiliates who will hunt you down and try to kill you to shut you up.  Want to look at a report?  It’s free.  Spencer Kimball perped Laurie Partridge and fathered Pastor Steven Anderson.  Ezra Taft Benson is Ben Swann’s father.  Swann’s real mother was a Mormon abduction victim.  It’s eugenics.  The church presidents are God’s on earth, and they do whatever they like, including kidnapping, torturing and raping young children.  Catholic priests do the same damn thing, and in the past this was excusable because the Pope regarded children their flock do do with whatever they wish.  YOU ARE FLOCK!  Progressive media will not let me present this on their message boards.  I’ve been censored form Prison Planet and the major news corporations, for obvious reasons.  What if I’m a nut?  What do  they have to worry about?  They are worried because what I am sating is reality which is people learn what they are doing it’s likely NATO wouldn’t be able to stop the US from routing this organization and hanging Thomas Monson and his predecessors posthumously.  THEY ARE KIDNAPPING CHILDREN AND YOUNG WOMEN AND USING THEM IN EUGENICS PROJECTS.  TE Lawrence was himself the product of such macabre.  Se if you can find THAT on-line.  It’s a controversial thesis, and they will kill to keep this information out of the mainstream, ya think!

  26. JanBrown October 11, 2012 at 7:11 pm #

    I am a Christian Constitutionalist. I apologize for being a little late in posting on this subject, but  it is very important to me.  I would love it if someone could help me understand if I am wrong about this.  I believe “Corporate First Amendment rights” is an oxymoron.  Everything underlying our Constitution is about the INDIVIDUAL…individual rights, individual liberties, individual freedoms.  A “corporation” is an entity created by the State (paperwork is usually filed with the Secretary of State) for the legal protections of its Officers, among other reasons.  Its purpose is to make a profit or achieve certain objectives (non-profits), and it therefore contracts with INDIVIDUALS who on corporate property become “employees” of the corporation (whether paid or not).  Employees do not have First Amendment rights while on the job, unless you want to risk losing it.  For example, I am not permitted to talk about politics, ask people if they would like to sign a petition, or even talk politics on the phone, lest someone hear me and be offended.   Furthermore, I am subjected to “diversity training” every year which offends me; I wrote my CEO about this, he rejected my position and demanded that I do the training or face consequences. 
     
    For the life of me, I do not understand how it makes any kind of sense that Corporations have the same rights as Individuals.  However, I do know the Supreme Court over the years through case law has changed the definition of “Person” to where it includes a Corporation.  But I think that is nonsense, and besides…the Supreme Court does not make law; they only provide opinion.  (Hence, for example, Roe v. Wade did not make abortion the law of the land in 1973 because Congress, who creates laws, never followed up with legislation to that effect.)
     
    Regarding whether the Constitution gives Congress power to regulate campaign contributions, etc., we wouldn’t have to be concerned about that if only INDIVIDUALS were permitted to contribute to campaigns.  It is the corporations that distort this process by using their profits or PACS and lobbyists to inundate candidates’ campaign chests with money, making INDIVIDUAL donations of practically no consequence and also NO INFLUENCE in helping candidates of their choice to win elections.  Hence, it is corporate America who is choosing our elected officials (and doing their bidding) instead of the INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGN CITIZENS.  That is NOT what the Founding Fathers envisioned.  The People effectively elect NO ONE any more, not only because of the huge and most powerful corporate donations, but the improper POWER of the two-party system.
     
    You stated the First Amendment doesn’t discriminate according to who is speaking, and that is correct.  “Who” means an individual, not a state-created corporate entity, which is a “what”. 
     
    The First Amendment rights are to INDIVIDUALS no matter where they work.  But the Founders obviously saw the importance of adding specifically the freedom of the “press” so that a government could not usurp power over what news is published or withheld.  The other rights to personally choose a religion or not, peaceably assemble, and petition the Government are to INDIVIDUALS as well.
     
    The severability issue of freedom of speech from spending money on a campaign is not the argument.  INDIVIDUALS most definitely demonstrate freedom of speech through campaign contributions.  Corporations, on the other hand, can communicate to their employees their preference of a candidate or issue, but individual employees may not agree and therefore financial contributions should come from INDIVIDUALS ONLY, not corporations.

    • gypsynovus October 11, 2012 at 9:10 pm #

      @JanBrown  Christian constitutionalism is a theocracy and another formulation of palingenetic ultranationalism.  Get that worked out first, then move on to the Bill of Rights. 
       
      Colonial America was an amalgam of protestant fundamentalism, many of whom were Presbyterian.  Forget reading Catholicism, Baptists and the Mormon church into this.  They are occult and made a presence for the Vatican and monarchy only, which is the same role the Nazarenes are in today – to further derail protestantism. 
       
      We are talking the negative core of the progressive movement here.  In all honesty, you are statedly a progressive, and so the bill of Rights is going to be difficult for you to process.  Rationality falls deaf on the ears of neopolitics is the only way I know how to say this. 
       
      This is not a criticism, but in an other way progressives seem to possess a schizoid state of mind. They are all over the map figuring things out which is why they can not dial into the Bill of Rights. 
       
      It’s the same impact confinement has on schizophrenic individuals.  They don’t like to be surrounded by walls, and yet they long to be understood.  Get close, and they go off.  They are a paradox, which is why progressivism work for people like them.  Humanitarianism, democratic process, throw in a little BDSM occult rendition and they love it. 
       
      That make sense?  What I am saying is the progressive movement is a mental attitude inhibitive of constraint on human behavior in competition with the self-mastery feature of our constitutional republic. 
       
      Progressives are not about self-mastery.  They are about a kaleidoscopic daily agenda that one task to the next they have the flexibility to stop and conduct a snake ball luncheon it it occurs to them to do so, and they are notorious for their preoccupation with BDSM and pedophilia.

    • pentale October 12, 2012 at 7:46 pm #

      JanBrown. From Pen Tale:  Finally, someone who makes sense and stands for righteousness.  We need righteous Indignation back in America.  I, too, am a Christian patriot and have been looking for someone who is interested in “truth,” not opinions (gan) for the sake of gab.  The 14th Amendment is our problem, and 13th also.  Stop the “gab” and start learning about the problem.   Go to  apenstale.wordpress.com for info.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Free Speech: Corporate and Anonymous | Libertarios of America - October 1, 2012

    [...] with the Founders’ understanding of the terms “freedom ofRead the rest of this article at: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/10/01/free-speech-corporate-and-anonymous/ Click "Home" to find this article in English. Clic "Inicio" para encontrar este artículo en [...]

  2. News Roundup – 10/2/12 « RubinoWorld - October 2, 2012

    [...] Free Speech: Corporate and Anonymous – Tenth Amendment Center. [...]

  3. Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission [FN2] « apenstale - October 4, 2012

    [...] “First, it is dubious whether the Constitution even gives Congress power to regulate the source and amount of campaign contributions and expenditures. The background and meaning of the Constitution’s “Time, Place and Manner Clause”—which Congress uses to justify such laws—strongly suggests not.”  Free Speech: Corporate and Anonymous, http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/10/01/free-speech-corporate-and-anonymous/ [...]