If there is no such common fundamental binding philosophy, you would probably agree that your strategy is going to be ineffective, right? I suggest we look for any evidence of this common philosophy.

Where and how do we look for it? In politics? In economics? In religion? The red state, blue state divide is growing in prominence, not shrinking (we have TV/radio to thank for that). Can we discern what is in common with a Dakota wheat farmer on 10,000 acres, and broomsweep in the Bronx? What exactly is shared by the atheist/rationalist and the southern Baptist? Yes, we went to school and recited the Pledge of Allegiance in unison as the state mandated. That's not cause I hope, for anyone's belief in unity, is it?

Which is the great American value – war or peace? Go on the street and ask and see what happens. Which is the great American value – equity or inequity? There's a timely debate for us to have. There's good reason why people are shouting the distinctions between bailing out Wall Street and bailing out Main Street.

Our "values" are not words in a pledge recited at school, or words inscribed in a marble monument, or even words projected from a 200 year old document. No! Our values can be seen and specifically measured as the fruits of our actions. Here is the great divide between us: Your position is engraved in marble, my position is the fruits of our collective actions. I believe I am using actual, real evidence – of the type that is suitable in a court to prosecute my point. I believe you are using hope from a distant past.

How can we use any evidence aside from the current fruits? I will not enumerate them, but I will argue that looking at them rationally has to lead a reasonable man to the conclusion that if it is true that we all share a common philosophy, it surely is the wrong and evil one. Why would any man want to design this as an outcome?

But I don't believe we share a foul philosophy. We don't share one at all. We do share the common goal of all mankind, which is survival and self interest. When those are cracked open you see some very simple objectives. People want to have reasonable comfort, they want to raise families, they want to live in peace in social units, pursue useful work, worship their gods or not, and they want to build futures for their children. Our 307M people do have that much in common with all humanity.

To project complex theories of law, or politics or economics onto that humanity is an academic exercise. People are operating at this far more fundamental level. When the WS bankers plotted instruments to confound the economic system and pile up huge immoral gain, do you suspect they had conversations about the common American philosophy of justice? Whoa no! Does GE consider this commonly held "Americanism" when it offshores 10,000 more jobs? How then is this Americanism playing any role whatever in the outcome? Who is applying it and how? Where is the evidence of it?

If there is no evidence of this Americanism, why are we building a big strategy of reform around it? Shouldn't we find what is real about the system, and derive first our causes and then our reforms from that fact?

Through the political process, most likely on the local level first, is the only place to begin such a quest. Abandoning the law is not the solution…and I mean true and just law, not the usurpations. Stopping the perversion of the law is the solution. Society, both in small and large segments, must agree on certain moral and ethical principles. There must be a philosophy, both morally and politically, that must be recognized for us to reform.

Again, sites like this are about action, not just regurgitating political theory. Philosophy provides the foundation for action. There must be guiding philosophy on the purpose of the law (i.e. government). What is the purpose of government? In America, it is based on natural rights and the rule of law. It is based on separation of power, both horizontally across the branches of government and vertically between general, state, and local governments. It is based on the government working on behalf of the people in a fiduciary manner. Of course, that is not an all inclusive list.

You obviously believe that corporations are not individuals and do not, therefore, have individual rights that must be protected. However, what rights are to be protected? What are we protecting and for whom? This is a philosophical question. I agree that we have two false choices, and only two, in modern American. We don't have to chose A or B, we can chose none of the above and go with C or D.

Again, there has to be a fundamental philosophy that binds us all…an understanding of how society will work best to ensure we are both free and secure without undue coercion or fraud. This why I continually come back to Bastiat. He was not just a philosopher, he was an economist and politician. He was trying to explain human nature, where our rights come from, why the law exists, and how, in his opinion, how and why the law has been perverted. His conclusions are a fantastic match for the ideals and values most Americans hold dear…even if they are unaware of them. He is not the end all, be all, but he has provided me a foundation from which to make arguments to support changing the status quo.

So, the idea is that when you stay in the dream of political theory, you aren't actually addressing causes of the actual problems. When you wake up and see the real causes – people, events, strategies – that are hurting the population in real ways, your efforts will lead to significant results.

I would never suggest anyone become a thief and a fraudster. Sorry that you were confused by my words on that.

"Matching my behavior to reality" means I would steal and defraud others through force so I can get a few of the nuts that you claim are left. That is not a solution.

Lots of words, but still no solution. You just repeat "my solution of waking up, seeing the reality, and then making your behavior match that reality" and "you can go hunt down the criminals and stop them from committing more crimes. Begin with corporate personhood, if you need an extremely specific demon to chase down"…please expound. What does that mean? Specifics please. What are we to do w/the corporate personhood? Lots of great fluff, but no solutions.

You have to begin by grappling with the animating force of life. And that force is not political theory. No one wakes up in the morning and says, "Today I will follow the Constitution!" Life, and therefore politics, is animated by self interest. And we have created in government the perfect bazaar for buying and selling these interests. That simply is what it actually is.

You say, "their rules are null and void." Really? That's what is called denial. Their rules are working perfectly for them, and although you think they are invalid, they have managed already to capture about 65% of all wealth in the USA using those null and void rules. This isn't a head game of intellectual wits, it is a battle for all the resources that sustain life.

You are discounting my solution of waking up, seeing the reality, and then making your behavior match that reality. But how can anyone reform something, if they can't see and describe what is happening?

Your remedy is the Constitution? The Constitution is the problem, not the solution. It is the soil in which this current system germinated, grew, and blossomed. How can it possible be the solution to reform? Just logically, your argument doesn't work. Again, this is obvious by doing nothing more exotic than examining the evidence. It's all available, what stops people from reviewing it and understanding it?

Here's an analogy. Suppose a detective shows up to a murder scene where Joe has been shot 4 times with a .45 and is lying in the blood. The detective declares, "The solution here is people must follow the gun laws!" He won't be a detective long, will he?

Your desire to wage a long uphill battle against reality is admirable, and I understand good intentions too, but while you are waving your sword in the air, all the nuts are being eaten, and very soon there will be none left. You do see that, right?

Be the detective that realizes a murder is on the loose and must be found, disarmed, and then prevented from committing more murders. In my recommendation, when you wake up – and see that you are actually art a crime scene – you can go hunt down the criminals and stop them from committing more crimes. Begin with corporate personhood, if you need an extremely specific demon to chase down.

The law must come from some place. That place is from the human mind based on his/her understanding of the world and his/her place in it. The law is the execution of a philosophy, justly or unjustly. Our country is based on a certain political philosophy, of which I will not get into, that requires men and women of certain character to execute it. Some call it fiduciary responsibility. You cannot escape the necessity of philosophy and its connection to the law. The Constitution is not a philosophy or an ideology.

You state "The law does what law makers decide they need it to do." That is why entities like the 10th Amendment Center exist to fight. Law makers, at least with regards to the general government, are not authorized make laws to fit their needs. Our laws are based on a written constitution of limited, enumerated authority. You can go on and on with what is wrong, the question still is what do you suggest as the solution besides "Wake up from the dream, look hard at reality by examining the evidence, and make all your subsequent behavior match the reality"?

We don't want to play by their rules…their rules are null and void. The remedy proposed on this site is the Constitution. Every issue, ever time. No exceptions, no excuses. Usurpation is not legitimized by repetition. No matter how many laws are passed repugnant to the law of the land, they are never valid. Yes, it will be a long, uphill battle to turn back the usurpations, but the alternative isn't very pretty.

The majority of the issues you raise I agree with, at least as I understand your stance on them. There are many things wrong with our political process today that drive inequality.

hopefully that helps unravel the idiocy of your query. Probably not, but it is still cool for me to see how people twist.

was that intentional misdirection? I wonder if anyone actually falls for such silliness.