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	<title>Comments on: Is it a &#8220;tax&#8221; or not a &#8220;tax&#8221;? The Original Understanding</title>
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	<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/</link>
	<description>Concordia res Parvae Crescunt</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 18:42:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: rew4455</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-902646</link>
		<dc:creator>rew4455</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-902646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obamacare comes under the General Welfare clause, Article 1 Sec. 8 Cl. 1,  which allows the government to tax and spend for the general welfare.  As the Supreme Court stated in United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 64-66 (1936):

 

&quot; ... the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.

...

&quot;[T]he phrase â€œto provide for the general welfareâ€ qualifies the power â€œto lay and collect taxes.â€ The view that the clause grants power to provide for the general welfare, independently of the taxing power, has never been authoritatively accepted. . . . The true construction undoubtedly is that the only thing granted is the power to tax for the purpose of providing funds for payment of the nation&#039;s debts and making provision for the general welfare.&quot;

 

This is explained in my book  &quot;The LAWFUL Remedy to Tyranny: How You Lost Your Rights, and How You Can Get Them Back.&quot; Read a summary at www.NaturalLawRemedy.com.

 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obamacare comes under the General Welfare clause, Article 1 Sec. 8 Cl. 1,  which allows the government to tax and spend for the general welfare.  As the Supreme Court stated in United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 64-66 (1936):</p>
<p>&#8221; &#8230; the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;[T]he phrase â€œto provide for the general welfareâ€ qualifies the power â€œto lay and collect taxes.â€ The view that the clause grants power to provide for the general welfare, independently of the taxing power, has never been authoritatively accepted. . . . The true construction undoubtedly is that the only thing granted is the power to tax for the purpose of providing funds for payment of the nation&#8217;s debts and making provision for the general welfare.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is explained in my book  &#8220;The LAWFUL Remedy to Tyranny: How You Lost Your Rights, and How You Can Get Them Back.&#8221; Read a summary at <a href="http://www.NaturalLawRemedy.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.NaturalLawRemedy.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Is it a â€œtaxâ€ or not a â€œtaxâ€? The Original Understanding &#8211; Florida Tenth Amendment Center</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-794443</link>
		<dc:creator>Is it a â€œtaxâ€ or not a â€œtaxâ€? The Original Understanding &#8211; Florida Tenth Amendment Center</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2011 17:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-794443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] on CurrencyConstitution Day is this Saturday!Counting on the Courts: A Dangerous PrecedentIs it a â€œtaxâ€ or not a â€œtaxâ€? The Original UnderstandingNullification: A Matter of Life and Death         /*  */         The Tenth Amendment &quot;The powers not [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on CurrencyConstitution Day is this Saturday!Counting on the Courts: A Dangerous PrecedentIs it a â€œtaxâ€ or not a â€œtaxâ€? The Original UnderstandingNullification: A Matter of Life and Death         /*  */         The Tenth Amendment &quot;The powers not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelBoldin</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-785505</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelBoldin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-785505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OldDog - I want to point out that the comment replies saying OLDDOG GOT IT RIGHT - that came from the same IP address as the comment YOU left prior - were caught by our spam catcher.  This kind of activity is not welcome here. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OldDog &#8211; I want to point out that the comment replies saying OLDDOG GOT IT RIGHT &#8211; that came from the same IP address as the comment YOU left prior &#8211; were caught by our spam catcher.  This kind of activity is not welcome here. </p>
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		<title>By: Sharon Jeanguenat</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-784520</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Jeanguenat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2011 05:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-784520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, liberals &amp; activists have no problem with forcing things like this on us. I feel this will end up in the Supreme Court, &amp; then, we may be able to do away with this atrocious piece of legislation! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, liberals &amp; activists have no problem with forcing things like this on us. I feel this will end up in the Supreme Court, &amp; then, we may be able to do away with this atrocious piece of legislation! </p>
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		<title>By: MichaelBoldin</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-784137</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelBoldin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2011 02:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-784137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then feel free to make a plain statement of... 
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;I oppose the use of violence&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
 
then you can refute my misinterpretation.  Otherwise it stands. 
 
And who the hell said I have a law degree?  Gross. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then feel free to make a plain statement of&#8230; </p>
<blockquote><p>I oppose the use of violence</p></blockquote>
<p>then you can refute my misinterpretation.  Otherwise it stands. </p>
<p>And who the hell said I have a law degree?  Gross. </p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-783819</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-783819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s what Thomas Jefferson said about the power to tax. This is in the context of the &quot;General Welfare&quot; clause, but it seems that it would apply to others: 
 
&quot;To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, &quot;to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare.&quot; For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless.&quot; 
 
I take this as meaning that a tax is only a tax if it is based on a legitimate power of congress. Therefore, it must be established if ObamaCare is a legitimate exercise of congressional power before it can be determined if the individual mandate is indeed a tax, making that determination rather pointless. 
 
My view of the issue at hand is that the question being asked of the courts is entirely the wrong one if we were to consider the meaning of the constitution in the context of what the ratifying generation understood it to mean. I understand that an entirely different tradition of jurisprudence has been built up to take the place of the spirit and it might be necessary to play within the confines of that system that is stacked in the favor of Federal overreaching, but I wouldn&#039;t expect much success with that system. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#039;s what Thomas Jefferson said about the power to tax. This is in the context of the &quot;General Welfare&quot; clause, but it seems that it would apply to others: </p>
<p>&quot;To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States, that is to say, &quot;to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare.&quot; For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless.&quot; </p>
<p>I take this as meaning that a tax is only a tax if it is based on a legitimate power of congress. Therefore, it must be established if ObamaCare is a legitimate exercise of congressional power before it can be determined if the individual mandate is indeed a tax, making that determination rather pointless. </p>
<p>My view of the issue at hand is that the question being asked of the courts is entirely the wrong one if we were to consider the meaning of the constitution in the context of what the ratifying generation understood it to mean. I understand that an entirely different tradition of jurisprudence has been built up to take the place of the spirit and it might be necessary to play within the confines of that system that is stacked in the favor of Federal overreaching, but I wouldn&#039;t expect much success with that system. </p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-783806</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-783806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LEAVE IT TO A LAWYER TO TWIST YOUR WORDS! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LEAVE IT TO A LAWYER TO TWIST YOUR WORDS! </p>
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		<title>By: Olddog</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-783784</link>
		<dc:creator>Olddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-783784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is not the same thing Michael, I am stating that is the only way you will get america back. If I was going to call for a killing I have the ability to make it as plain as my  statement that you just want to interpret it that way. As long as the bankers have control of our government, you will accomplish nothing but making a name for your self by holding a law degree. Keep kicking the can. Maybe someone will applaude. 
OLdDog]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not the same thing Michael, I am stating that is the only way you will get america back. If I was going to call for a killing I have the ability to make it as plain as my  statement that you just want to interpret it that way. As long as the bankers have control of our government, you will accomplish nothing but making a name for your self by holding a law degree. Keep kicking the can. Maybe someone will applaude.<br />
OLdDog</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelBoldin</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-783718</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelBoldin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-783718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[glad someone appreciated it! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>glad someone appreciated it! </p>
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		<title>By: Freeman</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/09/12/is-it-a-tax-or-not-a-tax-the-original-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-783677</link>
		<dc:creator>Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 21:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=9785#comment-783677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems none of the &#039;justice system&#039; can read. 
The highest court has yet to rule on this on appeal. 
I offer that any decent Constitutional scholar/lawyer knows, there are limits to any &#039;taking&#039;. Further, the small matter of due process seems to have been overlooked. 
If anyone is serious about this, how about putting it on the national ballot for referendum? 
No law tha violates any portion, part, or accepted precedent of our Constitution has any validity,  is to be stricken, and redress made to all affected. 
Hope the world comes to an end soon so we don&#039;t have to deal with all this BS anymore... 
  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems none of the &#039;justice system&#039; can read.<br />
The highest court has yet to rule on this on appeal.<br />
I offer that any decent Constitutional scholar/lawyer knows, there are limits to any &#039;taking&#039;. Further, the small matter of due process seems to have been overlooked.<br />
If anyone is serious about this, how about putting it on the national ballot for referendum?<br />
No law tha violates any portion, part, or accepted precedent of our Constitution has any validity,  is to be stricken, and redress made to all affected.<br />
Hope the world comes to an end soon so we don&#039;t have to deal with all this BS anymore&#8230; </p>
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