The Judiciary Was Excluded From Policymaking

by Raoul Berger

EDITOR’S NOTE: The following is an excerpt of the book (chapter 16) Government by Judiciary: The Transformation of the Fourteenth Amendment, Foreword by Forrest McDonald (2nd ed.) (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 1997).

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It is a singular fact that the most significant single piece of evidence that the Framers excluded the judiciary from policymaking—rejection of their participation in a Council of Revision of legislation—went unnoticed by bench and bar until it was called to their attention by a political scientist, Benjamin F. Wright.1 Not the least remarkable aspect of judicial neglect of this history is that it should finally be invoked by Justices Black (1965)2 and Douglas (1968),3 oblivious to the shattering effect that it has on their own sweeping policymaking decisions.

Edmund Randolph proposed in the Convention that the President, “and a convenient number of the National Judiciary, ought to compose a council of revision” to examine every act of Congress and by its dissent to constitute a veto.4 When his fellow Virginian George Mason argued for judicial participation in the presidential veto, he recognized that judges already could declare an unconstitutional law void. But with regard to every law however unjust oppressive or pernicious, which did not come plainly under this description, they would be under the necessity as Judges to give it a free course. He wished further use to be made of the Judges, of giving aid in preventing every improper law.5

A similar differentiation was drawn by James Wilson:

Laws may be unjust, may be unwise, may be dangerous, may be destructive; and yet be not so unconstitutional as to justify the Judges in refusing to give them effect. Let them have a share in the Revisionary power [in order to “counteract” ] the improper views of the Legislature.6

Despite the fact that the proposal had the support of Madison, and, therefore, of perhaps the most influential trio in the Convention, it was rejected for reasons that unmistakably spell out the exclusion of the judiciary from even a share in policymaking. Nathaniel Gorham saw no “advantage of employing the Judges in this way. As Judges they are not to be presumed to possess any peculiar knowledge of the mere policy of public measures.” 7 Elbridge Gerry, one of the most vigorous advocates of judicial review, opposed judicial participation in the Council:

It was quite foreign from the nature of ye office to make them judges of the policy of public measures . . . It was making Statesmen of the Judges; and setting them up as the guardians of the Rights of the people. He relied for his part on the Representatives of the people as the guardians of their Rights and Interests. It was making the Expositors of the Laws, the Legislators which ought never to be done.8

Charles Pinckney also “opposed the interference of the Judges in the Legislative business.” 9 Rufus King joined in the opposition on the ground that as “the judges must interpret the Laws they ought not to be legislators.” 10 Roger Sherman “disapproved of Judges meddling in politics and parties.” 11 It is reasonable to infer that John Dickinson expressed a widely shared view in cautioning that “The Justiciary of Aragon . . . became by degrees the law-givers.” 12 Plainly the Framers refused to make the judiciary “law-givers,” even to the extent of allowing them to share in the legislative making of law, let alone finally to decide on policy, an exclusive legislative function.13 They drew a line between the judicial reviewing function, that is, policing grants of power to insure that there were no encroachments beyond the grants, and legislative policymaking within those bounds. “Dangerous” and “destructive” as such policies might be, they were yet to be the exclusive province of the legislature. That is the inescapable inference from the facts, and, as will appear, it is fortified by still other historical facts.

Justice Douglas therefore stood on solid ground in stating that “when the Court used substantive due process to determine the wisdom or reasonableness of legislation, it was indeed transforming itself into the Council of Revision which was rejected by the Constitutional Convention.” 14 In a remarkable example of compartmentalized thinking he went on to say, “we no longer exercise that kind of power,” just as he had earlier stated in Griswold v. Connecticut that the Court no longer acts as a “super legislature” —except in a case touching the “right of privacy.” 15

The history of the Council of Revision also serves to refute the view that judicial review is an expression of “distrust in popular government,” 16 or, in Corwin’s oft-quoted phrase, having bet on democracy, the Framers then “covered their bet.” 17 The “cover,” however, went no further than to prevent the legislature from “overleaping its bounds.” In fact the judiciary was excluded from halting “dangerous . . . destructive” legislation that was within those bounds. If the Framers “covered their bet,” they gave the last trump to Congress: judges who usurped power, for example, exercised a power withheld, said Hamilton, could be impeached. The Founders unequivocally rejected the judiciary as “guardians of the people”; they preferred, in Gerry’s words, to put their trust in “the Representatives of the people.” For judicial review was an innovation by no means universally admired; it was a departure from Blackstone’s “omnipotent parliament.” 18 Having “smarted” under the “omnipotent power of the British parliament,” said James Iredell, we should “have been guilty of . . . the grossest folly” had we “established a despotic power among ourselves.” 19 If this could be said of a legislature that could be turned out of office periodically, constitution-makers were even less ready to entrust unlimited power to an untried, unelected judiciary appointed for life.

The judicial role, it cannot be unduly emphasized, was limited to policing constitutional boundaries. James Wilson said it is necessary that Congress be “kept within prescribed bounds, by the interposition of the judicial department.” 20 The courts, said Oliver Ellsworth, were a “check” if Congress should “overleap their limits,” “make a law which the Constitution does not authorize.” 21 Judges, John Marshall stated in the Virginia Convention, could declare void “a law not warranted by any of the powers enumerated.” 22Hamilton stressed that the courts were to serve as “bulwarks of a limited Constitution against legislative encroachments.” 23 But “within those limits,” Madison said, there were “discretionary powers.” 24 The exercise of that discretion, as we have seen, is for the branch to whom it has been confided. No one, so far as my search of the several convention records uncovered, looked to the Court for “leadership” in resolving problems that Congress, the President, or the States failed to solve. That view is a product of post-Warren euphoria. The courts were expected to “negative” or set aside unauthorized action, to “check” legislative excesses, to “restrain” Congress within its prescribed “limits,” to prevent the “usurpation” of power. The Court, in other words, was to act as nay-sayer, not as initiator of policy. Justice Stephen Field, supreme activist of his time, stated upon his retirement in 1897 that “This negative power, the power of resistance, is the only safety of a popular government.” 25

When, therefore, James Bradley Thayer and Learned Hand insisted that the role of the Court was to police the boundaries of constitutional grants, not to interfere with the exercise of legislative or executive discretion within those boundaries,26 they rested firmly on the authority of Hamilton and the preponderant view of the Founders. For 150 years the Court was content with this policing function;27 even the headstrong laissez-faire Court merely acted as a nay-sayer. It fell to the Warren Court to initiate policy when the legislative and executive failed to act, to take the lead in deciding what national policy ought to be.28 But the failure of Congress to exercise legislative power does not vest it in the Court.

Judicial “Discretion” in 1787

A common historicist fallacy is to import our twentieth-century conceptions into the minds of the Founders. At the adoption of the Constitution the notion that judges, for example, could make law as an instrument of social change was altogether alien to colonial thinking. “Instrumentalism” was yet to come. In a valuable essay Morton J. Horwitz observed that “fear of judicial discretion had long been part of colonial political rhetoric” and described the prevalent jural conceptions that combined to circumscribe the judicial function in the eighteenth century.29 There was first the fact that the common law rules—that is, judicially enunciated rules in the field of contracts and the like— “were conceived of as ‘ founded in principles, that are permanent, uniform and universal.’ ” Consequently, judges “conceived their role as merely that of discovering and applying preexisting legal rules” and derived “the rule of strict precedent” from such “preexisting standards discoverable by judges.” It followed that “judicial innovation itself was regarded as an impermissible exercise of will.” 30 Horwitz cites the statement of Chief Justice Hutchinson of Massachusetts in 1767: “the Judge should never be the Legislator: Because then the Will of the Judge would be the Law: and this tends to a State of Slavery.” 31 Not long afterward Edward Gibbon wrote, “the discretion of the judge is the first engine of tyranny.” 32 Horwitz concluded that “In eighteenth century America, common law rules were not regarded as instruments of social change; whatever legal change took place generally was brought about through legislation . . . American judges . . . almost never self-consciously employed the common law as a creative instrument for directing men’s energies towards social change.” 33 Those who would rest an implied power of judges to act as such instruments of social change in the field of constitutional law have the burden of producing evidence that the Framers intended to depart from these norms. The exclusion of judges from the Council of Revision alone points to the contrary.

“Instrumentalism,” Horwitz shows, largely began to develop in the early nineteenth century—after the adoption of the Constitution; the examples he cites are all drawn from application of common law; not once is a judicial claim of power to alter a statute, let alone a constitution, asserted. To such negative implications may be added Hamilton’s statement in the very context of judicial review (Federalist No. 78), that the judicial role is one of “judgment” not “will,” that “to avoid arbitrary discretion in the courts, it is indispensable that they should be bound down by strict rules and precedents, which serve to define and point out their duty in every particular case that comes before them.” 34 What could be further from the current freewheeling conception of judicial review than these words by the foremost apologist for judicial review, designed to reassure opponents of ratification? Courts were not merely to be “bound down” by the “chains of the Constitution,” but by “strict rules and precedents” as well. Even when the tide began to turn toward instrumentalism, Judge William Cranch of the Circuit Court for the District of Columbia stated in his preface to 1 Cranch of the Supreme Court’s decisions (1803): “In a government which is emphatically stiled a government of laws, the least possible range ought to be left for the discretion of the judge.” 35

There are also contemporary judicial statements that display the circumspection with which the judges approached the novel task of judicial review. In one of the earliest State cases, Commonwealth v. Caton (1782), Edmund Pendleton, president of the highest Virginia court, stated: “how far this court . . . can go in declaring an act of the Legislature void, because it is repugnant to the Constitution, without exercising the Power of Legislation, from which they are restrained by the same Constitution? is a deep, important, and I will add, an awful question” 36 —which, he rejoiced, he had no occasion to decide. Subsequently, Pendleton served as the presiding officer of the Virginia Ratification Convention, and it is unlikely that he translated the examples furnished by his colleagues, all addressed to checking encroachments on reserved powers, into unlimited power of review. No one remotely intimated that there would be judicial power to rewrite the Constitution.37 Nothing could have been better calculated to defeat ratification than a claim of judicial power that would leave the States altogether at the mercy of the federal courts;38 and such State jealousy was met by the Judiciary Act of 1789 which withheld from the inferior federal courts jurisdiction of cases “arising under” the Constitution.

Even with respect to the policing function, Justice James Iredell, who had been one of the most cogent advocates of judicial review, stated in 1798 that the power to declare a legislative act “void is of a delicate and awful nature, [hence] the Court will never resort to that authority but in a clear and urgent case.” 39 In M’Culloch v. Maryland Chief Justice Marshall indicated that something like a “bold and plain usurpation to which the constitution gave no countenance” was required “to invoke the judicial power of annulment.” 40 And in 1824 he averred that “judicial power is never exercised for the purpose of giving effect to the will of the judge; always for the purpose of giving effect to the will of the legislature.” 41 For Chief Judge Cardozo, Marshall’s statement was the expression “of an ideal,” which “Marshall’s own career” illustrates “is beyond the reach of human faculties to attain.” 42 It would be more accurate to say, as Charles L. Black pointed out, that it reflected the colonists’ conception that “ Law is a body of existing and determinate rules,” which “ is to be ascertained ” by the judge by consulting “statutes, precedents and the rest,” and that “the function of the judge was thus placed in sharpest antithesis to that of the legislator,” who alone was concerned “with what the law ought to be.” 43 So Marshall understood the judicial role: “Courts are mere instruments of the law and can will nothing. When they are said to exercise a discretion, it is a mere legal discretion, a discretion to be exercised in discerning the course prescribed by law ” 44 —that is, by the legislators or the people gathered in Convention.

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Marshall, it needs always to be remembered, had fought on behalf of judicial review in the Virginia Ratification Convention and was well aware of the views entertained by the Founders. His 1824 statement confirms that among the presuppositions the Founders brought to the several conventions was a bias against judicial discretion and policymaking. There is no evidence whatsoever that these presuppositions were thrown overboard in the creation of the judiciary. To the contrary, the established presumption is that the Founders created a judiciary in familiar terms, except insofar as they envisaged its “policing” function. Judicial alteration of the fundamental law ran counter to their belief in a “fixed Constitution”; it was altogether outside their contemplation, as Hamilton made plain.45Justice Frankfurter, therefore, was close to the mark in stating that the Framers were on guard “against the self-will of the courts.” 46

Raoul Berger (1901 – 2000) is a widely read and widely debated authority on the United States Constitution. Mr. Berger’s interpretation of the framers’ intentions thrilled liberals when he castigated President Richard M. Nixon’s assertions of executive privilege in an effort to keep information from Congress in the Watergate case and appalled them when he wrote that the Supreme Court had overstepped its authority in ordering the racial desegregation of the public schools. He wrote seven books and more than 100 articles covering such topics as impeachment, executive privilege, judicial review and the death penalty, thrusting himself to the center of the incessant and tortuous national debate on constitutional interpretations. He did it with a style that inspired the author Garry Wills in 1974 to speak of his ”exuberance of pugnacious learning.”

NOTES

[1.]Benjamin F. Wright, The Growth of American Constitutional Law 18–20 (1942); see also A. T. Mason, The Supreme Court: Palladium of Freedom 67–70 (1962).

[2.]Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 514 note 6 (1965).

[3.]Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S. 83, 107 (1968); Justice Frankfurter had cited it in Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624, 650 (1943): the Framers “denied such legislative powers to the federal judiciary [and] chose instead to insulate the judiciary from the legislative function.”

[4.]1 Farrand 21.

[5.]2 Farrand 78 (emphasis added).

[6.]2 id. 73 (emphasis added).

[7.]Id.

[8.]1 Farrand 97–98; 2 Farrand 75 (emphasis added). Wright stated, “Gerry is not alone in this, for the same point of view is expressed by almost every man who says anything at all on this subject in the Convention and in the ratification controversy.” “The judiciary,” Wright concluded, “would not be concerned with the policy, the reasonableness or arbitrariness, the wisdom of legislation.” Supra note 1 at 18, 244; see also id. 19–20.

[9.]2 Farrand 298.

[10.]1 Farrand 108; cf. id. 98.

[11.]2 Farrand 300.

[12.]Id. 299.

[13.]Mason, The Supreme Court, supra note 1 at 70, 94, 117; 1 Julius Goebel, Antecedents and Beginnings to 1801, History of the Supreme Court of the United States 238 (1971).

[14.]Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S. at 107. Through the due process clauses, A. T. Mason stated, the Court “became the final arbiter of public policy . . . the very authority the framers deliberately refused to confer under the proposed council of revision.” Mason, The Supreme Court, supra note 1 at 117. Yet Rodell could write that those who complain talk in “abstract phrases” — “judicial usurpation of legislative functions.” “The ‘Warren Court’ Stands Its Ground,” The New York Times Magazine, September 27, 1964, in Levy, Warren208, 211.

[15.]Supra Chapter 14 at note 74.

[16.]Wallace Mendelson, Justices Black and Frankfurter: Conflict in the Court 126 (1961).

[17.]Quoted in Mason, The Supreme Court, supra note 1 at 63: “Judicial review represents an attempt by American Democracy to cover its bet.”

[18.]Raoul Berger, Congress v. The Supreme Court 38–42, 29 (1969).

[19.]2 G. J. McRee, Life and Correspondence of James Iredell 145–146 (1857–1858).

[20.]2 Elliot 445.

[21.]Id. 196.

[22.]3 Elliot 553. For additional citations, see Berger, supra note 18 at 13–16.

[23.]Federalist No. 78 at 508. At another point he stated that the courts were an “excellent barrier to encroachments and oppressions of the representative body.” Id. 503.

[24.]1 Annals of Congress 438 (1789). “The Legislative powers,” Madison stated, “are vested in Congress, and are to be exercised by them uncontrolled by any of the Departments, except the Constitution has qualified it otherwise.” Id. 463.

[Story extolled the common law because it “controls the arbitrary discretion of judges, and puts the case beyond the reach of temporary feelings and prejudices.” James McClellan, Joseph Story and the American Constitution 98 (1971).

Madison stated in the Convention that “the collective interest and security were much more in the power belonging to the Executive than to the Judiciary department . . . in the adminstration of the former much greater latitude is left to opinion and discretion than in the administration of the latter.” 2 The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 34 (Max Farrand ed. 1911).]

[25.]Letter to the Court, October 12, 1897, 168 U.S. 713, 717 (1897). Gouverneur Morris stated that it was the judicial function to reject a “direct violation of the Constitution.” 2 Farrand 299. The Court “gained its power as an agency trusted to establish and enforce constitutional limitations on the excessive use of governmental authority,” i.e., in excess of granted authority. Paul Murphy, The Constitution in Crisis Times,             1918–1969 154       (1972).

[26.]J. B. Thayer, “The Origin and Scope of the American Doctrine of Constitutional Law,” 7 Harv. L. Rev. 129, 135 (1893); Learned Hand, The Bill of Rights 66, 31 (1962). That control of executive discretion lies beyond the judicial function was held in Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137, 169–170 (1803), and in Decatur v. Paulding, 39 U.S. (14 Pet.) 497, 515 (1840).

[27.]Cf. Murphy, supra note 25 at 154. Professor Kurland stated, “the Court would remain true to its function of preserving the original meaning of the Constitution if it were to act more aggressively to prevent the executive from overreaching his constitutionally limited function.” Politics, the Constitution and the Warren Court 17 (1970). “Throughout most of our history the form of the Supreme Court’s contributions to public policy was negative.” Archibald Cox, “The New Dimensions of Constitutional Adjudication,” 51 Wash. L. Rev. 791, 813 (1976).

[28.]“ [T]here were outrages in American life . . . no other arm of government was doing anything about them.” Anthony Lewis, “A Man Born to Act, Not to Muse,” The New York Times Magazine, June 30, 1968, in Levy, Warren 151, 159 (1968). See also Martin Shapiro, Law and Politics in the Supreme Court 247–248 (1964). In the words of Professor Lusky, the Court is “acting as a prime mover rather than a modulator of efforts at change initiated elsewhere . . . As a prime mover . . . it has demanded a number of changes which do not command majoritarian support.” Lusky 227. See also supra Chapter 14 note 136. For the transformation of the judicial function this has entailed, see Appendix B. See also infra Chapter 20 note 8.

[29.]“The Emergence of an Instrumental Conception of American Law, 1780–1820,” in 5 Perspectives in American History 287, 303 (1971).

[30.]Id. 296, 297, 298. Zephaniah Smith, Chief Justice of Connecticut, stated, “Judges have no power to frame laws—they can only expound them.” 1 Z. Smith, A System of Laws of the State of Connecticut 93–94 (1795–1796). Lord Mansfield’s reforming work “convinced Thomas Jefferson that a check need be established on the common law powers of judges.” Horwitz, supra note 29 at 310. This in the field of commercial, not constitutional, law.

[31.]Horwitz, id. 292. For additional materials illustrating the Founders’ aversion to judicial discretion, see Gordon Wood, The Creation of the American Republic 1776–1789 301–302 (1969). As one writer put it, if the judges “put such a construction on matters as they think most agreeable to the spirit and reason of the law . . . they assume what is in fact the prerogative of the legislature.” Wood, id. 302.

[32.]4 Edward Gibbon, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire 518 (Nottingham Soc. undated). Blackstone had written, “law, without equity, though hard and disagreeable, is much more desirable for the public good than equity without law; which would make every judge a legislator, and introduce most infinite confusion.” 1 Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 62 (1765–1769). Wendell Phillips quoted Lord Camden: “The discretion of a Judge is the law of tyrants . . . In the best of times it is often times caprice—in the worst, it is every vice, folly and passion, to which human nature is liable.” Quoted in Robert Cover, Justice Accused: Antislavery and the Judicial Process 152 (1975).

[33.]Supra note 29 at 287.

[34.]Horwitz, supra note 29 at 309–326; Federalist No. 78 at 504, 510. Kent stated that without the common law, i.e., the precedents, “the courts would be left to a dangerous discretion to roam at large in the trackless field of their own imaginations.” 1 James Kent,Commentaries on American Law 373 (9th ed. 1858).

[35.]5 U.S. (1 Cranch) iii (1803). Cranch was a nephew of, and appointed by, President John Adams, and a classmate and esteemed friend of his cousin John Quincy Adams. Life in a New England Town: 1787, 1788. Diary of John Quincy Adams 21 note 2 (1903). Horwitz quotes an unpublished opinion on circuit by Justice William Johnson (1813) that to invite “judicial discretion” would “increase the oddity of the state of things” in that the judiciary “would be left at large to be governed by their own views on the Fitness of things.” Supra note 29 at 306–307.

[36.]Commonwealth v. Caton, published in 2 Letters and Papers of Edmund Pendleton 416, 422 (D. J. Mays ed. 1967).

[37.]For citations to Madison, Marshall, and Nicholas, see Berger, supra note 18 at 77, 140, 15.

[38.]Cf. id. 263.

[39.]Calder v. Bull, 3 U.S. (3 Dall.) 386, 399 (1798); Justice Chase said, “a very clear case.” Id. 395. Earlier, Iredell, rebutting criticism of judicial review by Richard Spaight (then a delegate to the Convention), had stressed that an Act “should be unconstitutional beyond dispute before it is pronounced such.” 2 McRee, supra note 19 at 175.

[40.]17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316, 402 (1819).

[41.]Osborn v. Bank of the United States, 22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 738, 866 (1824).

[42.]Benjamin N. Cardozo, The Nature of the Judicial Process 169–170 (1921). It is not merely an “ideal” but a requirement of the separation of powers, supra Chapter 15 at notes 27, 43–49. Marshall recognized judicial limits in his pseudonymous defense of M’Culloch v. Maryland, to meet stormy charges of judicial usurpation. See infra Chapter 21 at notes 12–19. Least of all can the judiciary say one thing and do another; it cannot afford conflicts between word and deed. Nor does Marshall’s disregard of constitutional bounds legitimate his displacement of the Framers’ “will” by his own.

[43.]Black, The People and the Court 160 (1960).

[44.]Osborn v. Bank, 22 U.S. at 866 (emphasis added).

[45.]The foregoing materials, to my mind, refute Bickel’s view that the Framers “certainly had no specific intent relating to the nature and range of the power” of judicial review. The Least Dangerous Branch 104 (1962).

[46.]National Ins Co. v. Tidewater Co., 337 U.S. 582, 647 (1949), dissenting opinion.

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47 comments
GRusling
GRusling

The above rule is equally true for any law made by congress. The discussion and (often) debate surrounding the adoption of any law will clearly identify what the legislators involved "meant" when they created that law. No "court" is authorized to modify the law by "interpretation" so the concept that any such authority ever existed is fatally flawed.

"The constitution, on this hypothesis, is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the Judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please." - Thomas Jefferson

Today, we see that occur so often that it is generally considered the norm, and few have the will to challenge it...

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

I don't think the constitution is trying to do much more than establish peacetime in America. There is a difference between what the consitution is allowed to do, and what it should do. The shortness of language on the judiciary in Article 3, coupled with historical fact, the roman republic which popularized the three branches of federal government, only came about to its judiciary later in history, when the soldiers went on strike, untill they had offices designed to sue officials for folly in general and with war. These tribunals had the power to veto legislation out of ethical concern. They were mostly focused on morality in the executive and legislative branch, which required a pedigree for office; the tribunes generally had to come from the lower class, out of the natural fear, the upper class in the judiciary would collude regarding their interests. Thus the judiciary as a form for the people, is capable of evolving, there is a real politic.

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

The Jersey Plan, advocated a judiciary that could enlist soldiers to enforce its decisions upon the states. So such was within the frame of debate. The point is a better country, truth, not necessary an obsolescence. Nor is inaccesible legal language consistent with the simplicity of truth, and belief in understanding. For instance the point of the constitution is peace between the states, the federalist papers say that first thing. If that point is no longer a concern, then is not the constitution seriously questioned?

GRusling
GRusling

"On every question of Construction lets us carry our-selves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, and conform to the probable one in which it was passed." - Thomas Jefferson

This is the course any "Constitutional Court" is required to take, and where prior authority to act cannot be found, any action taken by any branch of government, or some element created by such a branch, is unconstitutional on its face...

Austin H.
Austin H.

"Obviously, the right of suffrage is predicated on the power of elected officials to do things people don't like."

Jeff, Please read Rob Natelson's book. It it talks about fiduciary responsibility of government....and many other great concepts that refute your line of thinking.

Why do the elected officials in the federal and state governments take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution if the have the "power" to do things people don't like (meaning unconstitutional measures)?

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

I know what a fiduciary duty is. It is the duty of an agent to place the interests of the principal above the agent's interest.

Fiduciary duty poorly describes the duty of an elected official, except to the extent you want to say it requires allegiance to "the people he represents." It so happens that the interests of all these people are not aligned in all matters.

Putting these semantics aside, what would make anyone believe that just because a person has a fiduciary duty that he will always comply with it? Fiduciary duties are breached all the time.

Try as you might, you will not find a set of words on any paper or parchment that will guarantee anybody "jack" when it comes to what people in power do.

Don't agree? Well, next time these politicians violate Natural Law, why don't you petition the "natural judge" to send out the "natural police" to remedy the wrong? Your belief that Natelson's book will refute all this is misplaced. I don't think Natelson's book would even try to refute it.

He is concerned with explaining the intended order based on concepts, and he supports those concepts based on historical evidence existing at the time. This, any philosopher can attempt to do - and some, more convincingly than others. But the real problems of the day are on the streets and in courts. All you philosophers ought to spend some time in the courts. It would be a real eye-opener, for sure.

For some reason, you and others are working under some pretense similar to a proposition that criminal laws prevent all crime.

Austin H.
Austin H.

There is no getting through to you. Yes, an elected official has a fiduciary responsibility as the agent to act within the boundaries of the enumerated grant of power on behalf of the principle (the people he represents). Example, a member of the House of Representatives is duty bound to serve his constituents within the bounds of the Constitution, unless he/she wants to pursue an Amendment. He/she has no authority to offer to his/her constituents anything not enumerated within the Constitution...that would usurp authority.

Again, usurpation is not legitimized through repetition. Laws will not eliminate crime, they do have a certain level of deterrent effect, but they provide a means to secure justice.

Our Constitution, and the body our republic's governmental order, IS based on natural law and the natural rights that flow from the natural law construct. True, no one has picked up Locke's treatises and based a government strictly on them. However, the concepts that governments are instituted to protect inalienable rights and derive their authority from the consent of the government is the basis for the Declaration of Independence. These ideas are captured in the State Constitutions and U.S. Constitution. This is not philosophy, it is fact. The Constitution is the Law and all other laws passed only come from the authority granted in the Constitution.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

While you consider the above examples, how about this twist?

The actor does not appear to be a serious threat to life of the victim, but he does appear that he can cause injury. Let's say he was unarmed, but he was threatening to beat the victim.

The victim pulls out a gun and shoots to kill. He aims for the heart. However, he misses and hits a leg. Nonetheless, the actor develops gangrene, which is unsuccessfully treated, and he dies.

So, to kill would be more force than necessary. He aims to kill. His shot misses and would not normally kill. But due to a complication, the shot kills anyway.

Can we solve this one by Natural Law? Or will we need a jury composed of 12 idiots in a box?

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Ok. Let's look at the relevant part.

"Wherefore if a man, in self-defense, uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repel force with moderation his defense will be lawful."

How do we know when someone uses "more than necessary" violence? Is "necessary" defined anywhere?

And is the test for what is necessary an objective one or a subjective one? This can be important.

First twist: Suppose the actor appears to have a gun, but it turns out he is, in fact, unarmed?

Does Aquinas tell us whether we are guilty if we actually, subjectively believe the actor was a greater threat than he actually was?

For a second twist, what if the actor wanted us to believe he was more dangerous than he was? What if he uses a toy gun that looks real?

Third twist. What if the actor has a real gun and says, "Everything will be fine if you cooperate and hand over your wallet?"

Where does Aquinas deal with each of these?

The point being.... He left us with the word "necessary." People can differ widely on what they consider "necessary." We need a Natural Law answer. People will screw it up. What does Natural Law tell us as to what is "necessary" in each of the scenarios?

Austin H.
Austin H.

This has grown monotonous...one last entry. This doesn't have much to to do w/the judiciary and policymaking, which the sources I provide prove they have no authority, but her you go:

The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas, Second Part of the Second Part , Question 64, Article 7

On the contrary, It is written (Exodus 22:2): "If a thief be found breaking into a house or undermining it, and be wounded so as to die; he that slew him shall not be guilty of blood." Now it is much more lawful to defend one's life than one's house. Therefore neither is a man guilty of murder if he kill another in defense of his own life.

I answer that, Nothing hinders one act from having two effects, only one of which is intended, while the other is beside the intention. Now moral acts take their species according to what is intended, and not according to what is beside the intention, since this is accidental as explained above (43, 3; I-II, 12, 1). Accordingly the act of self-defense may have two effects, one is the saving of one's life, the other is the slaying of the aggressor. Therefore this act, since one's intention is to save one's own life, is not unlawful, seeing that it is natural to everything to keep itself in "being," as far as possible. And yet, though proceeding from a good intention, an act may be rendered unlawful, if it be out of proportion to the end. Wherefore if a man, in self-defense, uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repel force with moderation his defense will be lawful, because according to the jurists [Cap. Significasti, De Homicid. volunt. vel casual.], "it is lawful to repel force by force, provided one does not exceed the limits of a blameless defense." Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense in order to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. But as it is unlawful to take a man's life, except for the public authority acting for the common good, as stated above (Article 3), it is not lawful for a man to intend killing a man in self-defense, except for such as have public authority, who while intending to kill a man in self-defense, refer this to the public good, as in the case of a soldier fighting against the foe, and in the minister of the judge struggling with robbers, although even these sin if they be moved by private animosity.

The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas, Second Part of the Second Part , Question 66, Article 2 (debunks collectivism, too):

On the contrary, Augustine says (De Haeres., haer. 40): "The 'Apostolici' are those who with extreme arrogance have given themselves that name, because they do not admit into their communion persons who are married or possess anything of their own, such as both monks and clerics who in considerable number are to be found in the Catholic Church." Now the reason why these people are heretics was because severing themselves from the Church, they think that those who enjoy the use of the above things, which they themselves lack, have no hope of salvation. Therefore it is erroneous to maintain that it is unlawful for a man to possess property.

I answer that, Two things are competent to man in respect of exterior things. One is the power to procure and dispense them, and in this regard it is lawful for man to possess property. Moreover this is necessary to human life for three reasons. First because every man is more careful to procure what is for himself alone than that which is common to many or to all: since each one would shirk the labor and leave to another that which concerns the community, as happens where there is a great number of servants. Secondly, because human affairs are conducted in more orderly fashion if each man is charged with taking care of some particular thing himself, whereas there would be confusion if everyone had to look after any one thing indeterminately. Thirdly, because a more peaceful state is ensured to man if each one is contented with his own. Hence it is to be observed that quarrels arise more frequently where there is no division of the things possessed.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

That was actually a good response and unexpected. Good find.

So, where does he define murder as an intentional deprivation of another's life? Even if he does not, I'll accept that this is the way he would define it.

So, where does he cover the issue of an intentional taking of another's life in the course of an act in self-defense and/or defense of one's property?

Austin H.
Austin H.

The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas, Second Part of the Second Part , Question 64, Article 1, Objections (homicide/crime)

Objection 2. Further, murder is a sin because it deprives a man of life.

Natural Law is tied to the belief in a higher power that is the ultimate law and judge. Aquinas basis his argument on the Bible, in which "homicide" can be traced directly back to the Ten Commandments.

Anyone that uses reason understands that to intentionally deprive another person of their life is in the wrong.

Some more good sources that tie the concept of Natural Law and natural rights to American governance: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/blacksto... http://history.hanover.edu/texts/adamss.html http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/locke/ http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/jeffsumm.... http://www.constitution.org/bcp/colright.htm http://www.constitution.org/bcp/virg_dor.htm http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declara... http://mises.org/daily/2426#1

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Please then, tell me what article, chapter and section of the Natural Law tells us when homicide is a crime? I'd like to look it up.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

I don't mean they have been "empowered." But they do have the power. Just like a cashier working for an employer has the power to misappropriate cash.

Courts are empowered to make law within the framework allowed by the Constitution and Congress.

Original Law: ..... that which is necessary and proper.

New Law: airplanes are necessary and proper.

This is the function of common law and the purpose of precedent - to establish a track record of all law-making done by the courts.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

I'm wondering if congress can make a law that says all dogs must be spayed could the courts implement it in such a way to include unfaithful men? If we want to play the game of words then why couldn't the court expand the law to mean that. Would that be democratic?

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

"Could" the courts? Sure. The people's check is the ability to vote and put together a Congress that will repeal the statute.

Would it be democratic? Yes, to the extent the people have the right to vote and care enough to make the appropriate changes AND there are candidates who will actually implement the policies the people elected them to implement.

The latter condition is where democracy is failing.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

Well if the people can repeal the law because it has been expanded beyond what was intended then that begs the question of why could the courts expand the law in the first place? They are not a legislative branch that can make laws and if they can create new restrictions on the people as they want then that would be people being ruled by human beings and not by the law.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

ut, you must admit, people can widely differ on whether a decision alters a meaning or explains it

Yes but my main objection to this argument is that it is used to alter the law to something that it was never intended to do. Sometimes these 'alterations' have a positive outcome but they still destroy the democratic process that created them. In order for a government to be free the laws must always come from the people's will. At times the people will be wrong but it always must be from that will that the laws must spring from.

Even when laws are struck down it is struck down in accordance to the people's will since the constitution that is used to strike them down are also created by the people's will. How can a government claim to be free and be accountable to the people's will if the people can't even write the laws that define it?

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

It is possible that prevailing court opinions are wrong that can establish a precedent are wrong. But being wrong implies that there is a correct opinion somewhere in which we can use to know what opinions are wrong. What is that correct opinion is up to debate but at no point can someone's opinion nullify whatever the correct opinion is. The correct opinion (over anything in life) nullifies our own opinions--not the other way around.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

You assumed the decisions "alter" the meaning. While some decisions do, indeed, appear to alter the meaning, not all do. Some merely explain the meaning.

But, you must admit, people can widely differ on whether a decision alters a meaning or explains it. Therefore, when you have a decision that the authority granted under the commerce clause prohibits states from granting a monopoly to navigate state waters, such as was the decision in Ogden vs. Gibbons, you have people like Natelson, who think the Ogden court got it right and was merely explaining. Other fine thinkers of the era disagreed and asserted the Ogden court altered the meaning.

Who's right and why? If the founders could not agree, then, how can we suggest that we know what they intended?

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

That is an assumption that all the writers of the constitution would do that. Where have they every said in anything that they have ever written that the terminology that they used would alter its meaning? And even if precedent and case law were upholdable in court the congress has the power to revoke those precedents with the ability to establish 'exceptions'.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Some. But it is a fallacy to think the framers and ratifiers all understood the terms in the same manner. If, immediately after ratification, an event occurs, and the cops go bust down a door with a warrant, you could line up all the ratifiers and have them vote on whether the cops' conduct (search) was reasonable and it is possible to wind up with an almost 50/50 split in opinion.

Look at early case law, and you can see this. Chisholm v. Georgia is a good one, for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chisholm_v._Georgia

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

What about the definition intended by the writers of the law? How much weight should that have in the 'interpretation'?

Austin H.
Austin H.

Again, you are off on the wrong track. There is no point in having a Constitution (enumeration of authority GRANTED by the sovereign individual) under your assumptions. You are describing a pure democracy. Every issues is debated and voted on, then applied to everyone, everywhere. You are correct in staying that judges create law...today, they do, but on the federal level (and I'm sure the state and local levels, too), they usurp their authority. That's Berger's point.

The Constitution and laws made in pursuance of it are the Law of the Land. It is clear from every resource I provided you earlier that the judiciary was NOT to make the law (including Berger's book). That is the role of Congress. Article V is the avenue to increase or diminish the authority of the Federal Government. To change the Constitution, the people of the several states must approve an amendment. Passing an amendment is too hard, so the Constitution is usurped. That is the entire point of Berger's book...we are governed by the judiciary. The Legislative power of the U.S. resides in the Congress (per the Constitution), there is no language that allows it to be delegated, shared, or infringed by another branch. Usurpation is usurpation. To quote Berger, "Usurpation is not legitimized through repetition." The Congress, Executive, and Judiciary can usurp the Constitution all it wants, but it is never legitimate.

Congress cannot Constitutionally make a law requiring the spaying and neutering of dogs. They have no authority. With that said, that does not mean they won't and that it wouldn't be upheld in court. The Federal Government does not operate within the Constitutional boundaries. We all know that. Fighting this is the point of the Tenth Amendment and the Tenth Amendment Center (It goes something like this: The Constitution every issue, every time. No exceptions, no excuses).

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

I am saying judges create law - common law. There isn't much choice. The term "reasonable" for example only has meaning relative to the circumstances. It is only when the particular circumstances of an issue are known that a determination of reasonableness can be made.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

Are you saying that judges should alter the law with their interpretation?

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Look at it from this angle. If the courts could not do this, then why worry about people voting? There would be no need to vote if everyone, including the courts, agreed on the law and followed it. Obviously, the right of suffrage is predicated on the power of elected officials to do things people don't like.

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

With the tenth amendment not understood as a check upon federal behavior, I would think you would want judges to have more power, or at least something done to enforce the law of the tenth amendment, which as a law, should be enforced by the judiciary.

Austin H.
Austin H.

The power to enforce the Constitution is different (authorized) than the power to usurp the Constitution (not authorized).

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

the constitution is about peacetime prosperity between the states. http://vicfedorov.wordpress.com/2011/06/25/americ...
It's doing something fairly simple. The judiciary needs to establish and even understand states rights, and that local officials abridge decision making in peaceful assembly and are neither state nor people. There's a difference between usurping, and enabling the means to enforce. We're up against the status quo, which is no paradigm of law.

Austin H.
Austin H.

Why was my comment deleted when I hit "Submit Comment?" I now have to recreate it!

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Austin, it's not a myth. You do realize that as time progresses, new circumstances arise that require the ability to determine what is "reasonable," "fair," "free," "peaceable," etc. under the particular circumstances presented.

If a judge is charged with deciding whether flying over curtilage (look that up) with a plane is reasonable, how are they going to do that by resort to Magna Carta?

How would you, as a judge, use rules developed centuries back covering the plain sight doctrine, when things like night vision goggles, x-ray, zoom lenses and satellite photography are invented?

You can't credibly pretend that God or Aristotle told you. You have to do some weighing of factors and use your best judgment.

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

One of the greatest lessons is to think for yourself

Austin H.
Austin H.

"You do realize that as time progresses, new circumstances arise that require the ability to determine what is "reasonable," "fair," "free," "peaceable," etc. under the particular circumstances presented."

That is why Article V of the US Constitution exists. Or, a shocker, that is why there are the several states if if is not a federal issue. The Bill of Rights, from which you get "reasonable", "fair", etc. all come from the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights was created to further clarify areas the federal government could not tread...areas that were retained under state control.

This is a discuss about the role of the federal government. The passage from Berger concerns the Federal Government. Where in the Constitution does the federal government get the authority to deal with curtilage? It is not enumerated to the federal government. Does that not fall under the 10th Amendment? Shouldn't the people of each state, county, city, or town get to decide how to deal with curtilage, night-vison goggles, x-rays, ect? Each state has a Constitution. That which was not delegated was retained by the several states.

If it is deemed necessary that the federal government should get involved in the situation you have presented, Congress or the States must evoke Article V.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

In short, the 4th Amendment says I am to remain free from unreasonable searches. It does NOT hold that all new ways to see or hear better which might later be developed render all searches using such devices as "unreasonable."

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

I might not have addressed the question of HOW it can be a federal concern at all. There are federal crimes, such as counterfeiting, etc., that nobody disputes is within the gamut of federal authority to seek out and prosecute.

So, to take this one example of an undisputed federal interest, what if I have a pole barn without a wall on the front side in my back yard, and in it, I have a printing press with freshly-minted greenbacks all around it? It can't be seen by anyone walking down the street, but it would be possible with one of those "Maxwell Smart" gadgets to hear me talking to my buddy, who is helping me, about all the fancy cars we'll buy with all this fake money.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

"Where in the Constitution does the federal government get the authority to deal with curtilage?"

Fair question. Curtilage is defined loosely as the land immediately surrounding one's dwelling. People keep things in their curtilage - like plants, tools, animals, etc. If law enforcement suspects a person stole some cattle, they are likely to want to search the person's curtilage - which is their property.

Search warrants are typically considered as preferable requisites to a search, but at no time were they ever considered as "always" necessary. For example, if a guy robs a bank and is walking down the road with a bag full of loot, with large bills falling out, no warrant is required because the loot is in the officer's plain view.

If I have a cow with a particular brand on it and I allege my neighbor stole it, if the officer is standing on the street (not on my property) and sees the brand on a cow in my pasture (curtilage) in plain view, he does not need a warrant. The contraband is in his plain view.

This is how curtilage is relevant and how the Constitution prescribes limitations in how one's curtilage will be dealt with in the context of searches.

Over recent decades, many devices that greatly enhance one's ability to see or hear have been developed. Airplanes, helicopters and zoom lenses, for example, made it easier to search a person's curtilage without ever stepping foot on it. Listening devices have made it far easier for surveillance to occur where an officer relying solely on normal earshot could never hear before.

Because these artificial devices have made it easy for surveillance to occur, even in places where people might normally have expectations that they are private, courts have had to deal with whether sound magnification devices and zoom lenses encroach so much into a citizen's privacy interest as to not justify reliance by officers on the old doctrines of "There it was in plain view" or "He said it where I could hear it."

On the one hand, there is no privacy interest to be protected in things you put out there that the public can see or hear. On the other hand, some devices are so extraordinary in their capabilities that they tend to invade what are considered, traditionally, to be valid privacy interests.

It is for that reason that the law continues to develop in terms of what types of equipment may be used without a warrant and still not render the search "unreasonable."

Binoculars, for example, are such an old technology, that courts do not permit concerns over privacy invasions simply because the officer used binoculars. Everybody and their dog can get a cheap pair of binoculars, and so, the courts hold, people engaging in crime within their curtilage ought to realize that what they do can be seen by anyone with a cheap pair of binoculars.

Where it gets more interesting is in the sound magnification and infrared technologies - things that no ordinary "Joe" can get his hands on.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Additionally, you made this statement: "Terms like “due process” and “jury” were terms of legal art with a vast body of cases and treatises behind them."

Now, are you contending that this vast body of cases and treatises just magically appeared one day - kind of like Moses' descent from the mountain with commandments in hand?

I know you make no such contention and that you understand that this vast body developed over many years - centuries, in fact.

Now, do you think that our Constitution was established to bring an end to all this development? That is, that we could just "freeze-frame" all laws that developed up until that point and go no further? That would be utterly contrary to the intent of the Constitution itself. It was never the intent of the framers that the vast body of case law and legal treatises would cease to continue developing at the instant of ratification.

Just keep in mind that you refer to these words as terms of "art," thus, revealing their inexactitude. I know it is easy for the untrained (legally untrained) to think in terms of "the law" as if it is some fixed body of premises wrapped-up in a nice, coherent and inflexible doctrine, but it is not. I operated under that impression until I learned what the practice of law is really all about.

That is why you can take any case you wish (even the oldies, like Gibbons vs. Ogden, or Maryland vs. McCulloch) and when you analyze them, you will see what the role of law-making, lawyering and judicial construction really is. It is, as it always has been, an art. From blue and yellow, magenta develops. If you add a pinch of green, you'll have yet another new color.

There are many fascinating questions that arise in the course of a good legal issue. Even in Gibbons vs. Ogden, the court had trouble articulating its position that the commerce clause preempted state activity, whereas the power to tax did not. Read it and see how they struggle to differentiate between a tax vs. a duty. Once you see this process and understand what they are doing, you will see the melding together of competing principles in a more or less imperfect manner to arrive at.... a policy - i.e., precedent for the next court to consider. That's how this vast body of cases and treatises develops, and it was never meant to stop upon ratification of the Constitution.

Austin H.
Austin H.

Applying the Constitution and adhering to its boundaries do not "herald back to the days of buggy whips and carriages and think that Locke and Hobbs were "hip."" It has nothing to do w/going back to the old days. It has to do with the rule of law.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

Oh, and to be clear, none of what I say is inconsistent with the Tenther movement or a "return to Constitutionalism." It's just that it helps to understand how, actually, the modern position is completely consistent.

The failure to understand the consistency is what drives criticism of our movement. Many think that the only way to properly support our movement is to herald back to the days of buggy whips and carriages and think that Locke and Hobbs were "hip." This is pure fallacy.

It's fun and informative to read a little on Locke and friends, but we've come a long way since then. There is no point in retreating in our capacity to reason. We can remain as modern and realistic as we are today and still be perfectly consistent while defending or advocating our position that the Constitution called for a much more limited federal government.

We don't need to yearn for the days of horses and buggies, cholera, typhus and the wild west to make our point. In fact, our point might be more well-considered if we stopped the role-playing of men who dressed in ruffles and white wigs and wore rouge.

MichaelBoldin
MichaelBoldin

Sorry, Austin. sometimes our spam blocker screws up and nabs the wrong one. I will try to make sure that does not happen again. do my best, that is...

Austin H.
Austin H.

No problem. Just frustrating to recreate.

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

The framers could not have possibly thought judges would not make policies. "Unreasonable" search and seizure. "Free" exercise of religion. "Peaceably" to assemble. "Particularly" describing the place to be searched. "Infamous" crime. "Just" compensation.

This is just a tiny sample of the value-laden words the framers embedded into the Constitution, and on top of that, almost every statute Congress wrote from day-one has the same types of words.

Obviously, they must know and expect that judges are going to have to tell us what these terms mean. Otherwise, they could have told us themselves by being more specific. Of course, the specificity required would, like the case law, fill volumes and volumes. Congress and the framers could not have possibly done that.

They knew fully-well the courts would get involved in telling us what these types of words mean. And this, by definition, is getting involved in policy.

vicfedorov
vicfedorov

The concept of a judiciary examining legislation, was practiced in classical times. Criminal matters weren't handled by state but as a last resort if tribal councils couldn't handle it. The N.J. Plan, which gave less power to the federal government than the Virginia Plan, as the N.J. Plan advocated states making their own trade pacts; whose fairness of pact or contract may be adjudicated by federal courts. Federal Courts, were also considered in the N.J. Plan as appropiate for analyzing treaties, with foreign nations. The judiciary could also keep track of the tricky issues of new states emerging to the west, and their legal issues.

Austin H.
Austin H.

This myth you are pushing concerning the lack of "specific" meaning has been debunked many times. The judiciary was to judge the law, not to interfere with constitutional policy or legislation.

Federalist #78 by Hamiltion:
"The judiciary, on the contrary, has no influence over either the sword or the purse; no direction either of the strength or of the wealth of the society; and can take no active resolution whatever. It may truly be said to have neither FORCE nor WILL, but merely judgment; and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm even for the efficacy of its judgments."

"It proves incontestably, that the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power1; that it can never attack with success either of the other two; and that all possible care is requisite to enable it to defend itself against their attacks. It equally proves, that though individual oppression may now and then proceed from the courts of justice, the general liberty of the people can never be endangered from that quarter; I mean so long as the judiciary remains truly distinct from both the legislature and the Executive. "

Rob Natelson's scholarly work and book, The Original Constitution, refute your myth that there was no specific meaning.

James Madison's Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 refute your myth that there was no specific meaning.

The more than 80 Anti-Federalist Papers refute your myth that there was no specific meaning.

The answer to the Anti-Federalist Papers, the Federalist Papers refute your myth that there was no specific meaning.

The official journal and ratification documents of the conventions of the several States refute your myth that there was no specific meaning.

Each term, phrase, section, and article has specific meaning. Contrary to what many think, much of the Constitution is not really written to be understood by ordinary, non-legal-educated people. Terms like “due process” and “jury” were terms of legal art with a vast body of cases and treatises behind them. Americans in the Founding Era were much more law-literate than are people today, but even the Founders had to hit the books and debate the understood meaning when they drafted the Constitution. So must we to understand what they wrote. There are no shortcuts.

Austin H.
Austin H.

The myth you are pushing concerning the language not being "specific" has been debunked so many times. Facts prove that the Constitutional judiciary was to no power other than to judge the law...no legislative or executive power (policy).

Federalist #78 by Hamilton: "The judiciary, on the contrary, has no influence over either the sword or the purse; no direction either of the strength or of the wealth of the society; and can take no active resolution whatever. It may truly be said to have neither FORCE nor WILL, but merely judgment; and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm even for the efficacy of its judgments."

"It proves incontestably, that the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power1; that it can never attack with success either of the other two; and that all possible care is requisite to enable it to defend itself against their attacks. It equally proves, that though individual oppression may now and then proceed from the courts of justice, the general liberty of the people can never be endangered from that quarter; I mean so long as the judiciary remains truly distinct from both the legislature and the Executive."

Rob Natelson, in his scholarly work and recent book The Original Constitution, refutes these ideas on the specific meaning of terms.

James Madison's Notes on the Debates in the Federal Convention (a convention that lasted from May to Sep of 1787) refutes these ideas on the specific meaning of terms.

The more than 85 articles call the Anti-Federalist Papers refute these ideas on the specific meaning of terms.

The response to many of the Anti-Federalist Papers, the 85 articles of the Federalist Papers refute these ideas on the specific meaning of terms.

The official journals of the each State ratification convention refutes these ideas on the specific meaning of terms.

Each term, phrase, clause, section and article had specific meaning and legal authority. Contrary to what many think, much of the Constitution is not really written to be understood by ordinary, non-legal-educated people. Terms like “due process” and “jury” were terms of legal art with a vast body of cases and treatises behind them. Americans in the Founding Era were much more law-literate than are people today, but even the Founders had to hit the books mentioned above to find out what they were saying when they drafted the Constitution. So must we to understand what they wrote. There are no shortcuts.

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