The Importance of Being “Natural Born”

The Constitution’s Framers thought deeply about the qualifications for federal office. Those qualifications are in the Constitution for very good reasons.  Despite some of the snarky commentary you hear on the subject, it has been entirely appropriate to insist that Barack Obama – or any other candidate for federal office – ”provide proof that he meets the constitutional requirements for that office.

Indeed, the real discussion over the President’s birth certificate should not be the sanity of the questioners, but the reasons the President didn’t produce his birth certificate long ago, just as you or I would have done.

Among the values the Founders thought central to good republican government was what they called “sympathy” or “fellow-feeling.” The basic idea was that government was a public trust, so lawmakers and officials should feel an identity of interest, rather than a conflict of interest, with the citizenry they served.  (For a detailed article on the subject, click here.)

This conclusion was based on historical experience with British and foreign officeholders who lacked the quality of sympathy.

Accordingly, the Constitution mandates that to serve in the House of Representatives a person (1) be at least 25 years old, (2) be a citizen of the United States, (3) have held citizenship for at least seven years, and (4) live at the time of election in the state he is representing. The last three requirements all were designed to ensure sympathy with those he was to serve. U.S. Const., I-2-2. The age requirement was designed to promote both sympathy and maturity.

The importance of sympathy grew as the importance of the office grew.  Thus, Senators must meet more demanding requirements: the minimum age is 30 rather than 25, and the period of citizenship is nine rather than seven years. U.S. Const., I-3-3.

Note that these requirements still are more relaxed than those then imposed for Members of Parliament in Britain, where an MP had to be a natural born subject.  A subject was natural born if he was born in Britain or a British territory or, if born abroad, his father was at the time a loyal subject not engaged in treasonous or felonious activities.

Although the American Founders did not require natural-born status for Congress, they did insist that the President have that status.  They also imposed a residency requirement of 14 years and a minimum age of 35. U.S. Const. II-1-5.

The Original Constitution

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Again, the residency and natural-born requirements were not arbitrary; they were the product of long historical experience.  For example, King Charles II had spent many years in Europe before assuming the British throne, and after doing so he secretly betrayed Britain in exchange for a pension from the King of France.  George I had been born in Germany, never learned much English, and remained more German than English during his 14-year reign. Since the American President would largely control foreign policy, it was – and is – uniquely important that he be natural born and have long residence in the U.S. before taking office.

In my view, the states would be wise to prevent future “birther-type” controversies by enacting laws requiring that aspirants for high federal office who wish to appear on the ballot first provide basic proof that they meet the Constitution’s prerequisites.

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51 comments
Tom EE
Tom EE

This is a great thread, if for no other reason than the great response by people who have interest in Constitutional issues.....

ndole10
ndole10

U for real...? I mean:
Great, u have dumbfounded evby....I can't wait for your landmark lawsuit on the supreme court, good luck with that Columbo...

sworn_defender
sworn_defender

The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, by the Hawaiian territorial Government, as to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii.

The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, by the State of Hawaii. As such all births thereafter were issued a "Standard Certificate of Birth" by the Hawaiian State Department of Health.

The document alleged to be Obama's Birth Certificate is a Standard "Certificate of Birth" issued by the Hawaiian State Department of Health. Problem is the Standard "Certificate of Birth" did not exist and therefore could not be issued prior to 1972.

Because Obama was born prior to 1972 his birth would have been recorded and documented with a with Certificate of Hawaiian Birth not the one offered

source http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-reco...

Margaret
Margaret

The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, by the Hawaiian territorial Government, as to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii.
It seems by this paragraph that if he was not "one year old or older" when the birth was registered this would not have been the correct form to be
used either?

Jeff Matthews
Jeff Matthews

The Constitution does not specify the manner or medium for providing proof of eligibility. Thus, I don't think there is a "Constitutional" argument to be made as to whether a birth certificate or official acknowledgment is Constitutionally required.

As to the idea that the states ought to enact laws setting forth the type of proof that one must show to seek federal office, there is long-standing Supreme Court authority holding that the federal government has exclusive authority to regulate the qualifications and procedures for running for a federal office. I am not a big fan of the Supreme Court, but I tend to think that Congress ought to have more say-so when it comes to federal election process than the states would. I can, however, think of some crazy hypotheticals where exclusive federal authority could lead to some bizarre results. Thus far, nothing so bizarre has really happened to warrant state control over federal election procedures.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

I think the term natural born is pretty self-explanatory.

Bob Greenslade
Bob Greenslade

It does not matter whether Obama was born in Hawaii, Illinois, or the basement of the White House, he is NOT a natural born citizen within the meaning of the Constitution.

In 1862, Congressman John Bingham from Ohio, who is recognized as the father of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, made the following statement during debate on the floor of the House:

“All from other lands, who by the terms of laws and a compliance with their provisions become naturalized, are adopted citizens of the United States; all other persons born within the Republic, of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty, are natural born citizens. Gentleman can find no exception to this statement touching natural-born citizens except what is said in the Constitution relating to Indians.” [http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llcg/059/0600/06811639.gif]

Four years later, Bingham stated:

“Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” [http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=071/llcg071.db&recNum=332]

During the 2008 campaign, Obama’s website stated:

“As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children.”

My his own admission, Obama was born to only one parent not owing allegiance to a foreign sovereignty.

Assuming the author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment knew his stuff, Obama is not a natural born citizen and is unconstitutionally occupying the office of the President of these United States because only a natural born citizen can hold that office.

ndole10
ndole10

Hmmm if Obama is not a natural born then 300mill Americans are stupid because it is pretty common knowledge that Obama's father was kenyan, never became american and he never hid it, pretty much the basis of his "change" campaign.
So with all the lawyers, representatives, senators, judges and regular citizens knowing that "only" beause his father was kenyan he isnt a natural born, he wdn't be Pdt today....
The question is; maybe your interpretation of what is a natural is false and the rest of the country is right.
What author x, y and z said a hundred yrs does not matter, only what is written in the constitution counts, so unless they amend it and put a clause saying"only an american with both parents born in the US or already being american" can qualify we can pretty much talk about it the whole week it stilll wdnt make any sense.... subjectivity of opinion is not an argument. never was...

ndole10
ndole10

We gotta amend that section of the consitution and specify all the conditions clearly....i mean beyond being over 35 and 14yrs residence.....Also The Vettel theory goes way back, and women were not considered then, so it was all about the "father"..time have changed ...

ndole10
ndole10

In fact there is No constitutional definition of a "natural born citizen" ....

4. Is there anything that specifies that only the 3rd generation of an immigrant family could be elected as president?

No. The president must only be "natural born," that is born a citizen. His parents may be born elsewhere. Both of Andrew Jackson's parents were born in Ireland, for example.

ndole10
ndole10

yep, he is one of the many sources pple can actually go to.....one of the many..

read, yet another source:

6.1. The U. S. Constitution and the President

1. What are the qualifications to be president? How old must you be? [eligibility, requirements, minimum age]

Reply: It is found in the Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

2. What does it mean in the Constitution when it says "natural born Citizen?"

From Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition: "Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad."

skippy
skippy

The definition of “natural born Citizen” is found in Vattel’s Law of Nations, Chapter XIX, 212.
The USSC in THE VENUS, 12 U. S. 253 (1814) 289 Page 12 said:

The whole system of decisions applicable to this subject rests on the law of nations as its base… Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other…

“The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.”

ndole10
ndole10

i wasnt talking about Obama...i was pushing a general point: is a person with both parents being american but posted abroad then returned to the US and live here for the rest of his/her life..is that person less american..?

"other loyalties" which it has been already documented that O has. ...excuse me: loyalties to whom...?

documented where ?
or is it a case of easy argument like "everybody knows it..." ? like the birthers who put some crazy ideas out there and then the burden of proof suddenly befall on others....pple say fallacies and it is always the recipient of the news that has to prove it wrong...

ndole10
ndole10

I dont understand ..what do u mean "if he....?", "whatever the birth situation is..?" , he is born in hawaii...that is settled now, aint it? Why keep that veil of uncertainty...beyond me....

philosophically, I think it is unfair that in order to be eligible u MUST be born in the US...i mean is one less american if both his parents are american and were just working abroad then returned and one spent all his life in the US...is that guy really less american???? Schwarzy has only been naturalized indeed..too bad ffor him but it wd be very intersting to review that clause...

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

I assume this was suppose to be a reply to me but I said whatever his birth situation is because it was irrelevant to the argument I was presenting. I was saying that if he was suppose to go through immigration process to be a citizen then he is not natural born. That would be putting him in the category of Arnold which is an American citizen yet not naturally born.

It really doesn't matter if it is fair or not because it is the law so our opinion of whether or not it is fair is pointless because if you think it is unfair then change the constitution.

skippy
skippy

Yes one can be more America. FOr the highest offcie in the US one must have full honor and integrity and LOYALTY to this country. If you have a father that is not a US citizen and were raised outside of the US you have the potential to have "other loyalties" which it has been already documented that O has.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

I think natural born is suppose to provide a higher level of citizenship standards than a person who has been naturalized. A person who has been naturalized such as Arnold Swartzanagger can not be president even though he is a US citizen. He is not a natural born citizen of this country because he immigrated to this country.

The question for Obama is this--under his true birth situation (whatever that is) would he have had to be naturalized to be a citizen or was he a citizen of the US by birth like most of us? If he had to be naturalized in order to be a citizen then he can not be a natural born citizen but if he didn't have to go through immigration procedures that all immigrants have to go through then he can be president since he was a natural born citizen. That is my take on it.

ndole10
ndole10

EVERYBODY KNOWS that , OF course U need to be american to become president of America...natural born even..it is news to nby my friend..

Silliest portion "In my view, the states would be wise to prevent future “birther-type” controversies by enacting laws requiring that aspirants for high federal office who wish to appear on the ballot first provide basic proof that they meet the Constitution’s prerequisites."

I mean the STATES that would demand a proof of birth ARE the same states that are gonna provide it..the BASIC LOGIC is that at least a state would respect the official doc of another state, the birthers didnt allow that for obama, this is in the constitution btw, that why the gov of Arizona rejected the silly "birther bill" over there...so again whats the point of this article..? silly silly silly ...The least pple can do is provide proof or evidence for their cause instead of barking around and wasting evby's time..

Brian Demi
Brian Demi

@Ndole10: The use of English in your statement leaves one to think that you are merely using information from one of the various Radio Talk Show host, rather then investigate the information for yourself. Using words of ridicule verses actually debating the issue points to a lack of reason.

As it is set now, the 'Citizens' of this nation rely totally on the various agencies and federal government arms to 'vet' any potential candidate. As we have learned through experience, our government is not forthright in coming out with the truth. (Remember Iraq, and the weapons of mass destruction? Though we have elected these officials, we did so in the hope of good faith, and that they would be honest, open, and looking out for their constituents (i.e. Citizens of their district as well as in their nation).

Having this faith in our system, has led us to a point of unrest, contempt, and weak as a nation. Thus, the need for checks and balances are there, and since it appears that every aspect of our federal government seems to be infiltrated with corruption, it is for the states to begin the process of weeding out this corruption. By requiring our federal officials to abide by laws governed not by them, but by our Constitution, perhaps they will see that those that allow them to serve us are now watching with a keen eye.

Instead of watching American Idol, the Royal Wedding, or any other piece a crap to divert the attention off what is happening; perhaps people will wake up and find out the truth about what is going on in our government rather then merely hitting the talking points from various personalities they hear on TV or Radio. It is long past time for the Citizens of this great nation to become informed rather then Ignorant.

ndole10
ndole10

Hmm i am actually an american living abroad and im quite petrified by what I see and hear, so as I am not in the country no talk shows, no propaganda shows either.
I do not have unbendable faith in the system, there are corruptions and dishonesty indeed but the bottom line is, when u argue something prove it logically. I always hated Bush but never believed any of the "truthers" ....because it was crazy and baseless...it is that simple

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

I also don't know why you assume that living abroad means you are more qualified than other people who live here. I assume by propaganda shows you are talking about talk radio or particular cable news show (CNN perhaps?) but human nature doesn't change across borders. Have you ever considered that in countries that you live in are more left wing than in America and love BO? Perhaps this causes a certain bias in that direction? Perhaps they don't care about domestic political issues that we American would care about since it is our country. Perhaps there is no unbiased news source in the world and the only true source of truth is our own rational minds that attempts to decipher that? Just perhaps...

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

What I hear is something called 'faith', 'mysticism', or unrational thought. Rational thought demands that all questions be answered and hates 'faith' since it is designed to stop that process from happenning. People who are truthers and birthers may be wrong (or they maybe right) but they still deserve to have their questions answered. That is the rational parts of our minds since all questions are answered and not skipped so that we may accept things such as Obama citizenship status as a matter of 'faith'.

MichaelBoldin
MichaelBoldin

how is it silly to explain what a clause of the constitution means? did you read the article? It is not making statements about the certificate, but giving an originalist explanation of the constitutional requirement.

Philosopherking
Philosopherking

That was my opinion of the article as well. It was no slander on BO but just saying the importants of being naturally born. Sometimes I think the reason the people on the left get so upset about it is that they fear it might be true and that we are hitting to close to the mark for their comfort.

ndole10
ndole10

u know, O is asked to provide a doc, he asks the state of hawaii to provide it like any other american, he is given an official doc, recognised by everyone... and he is the lier..?
It isnt upon him to provide anything further and so he didnt until the crazies , trump, moved the polls...the long form is pretty much the same thing...
SO: if the doc is given by hawaii, recognised by eveby and even rep or dem governors, checked multiple times..it is real unless sby provides some irrefutable proof otherwise...the whole thing on how it is is fault he didnt provide x or y is ludicrous...

Dave Stewart
Dave Stewart

I see my good sir, that you follow the BS coming from DC. Wealth is generated by ppl whom either work hard or work smart, why do I want to give my hard earnings to the lazy? Corporatization? Are you kidding me, once again the are the ones whom run the economy. Health care? High costs are due to BS court decisions thus driving insurance costs for medical ppl up, thus driving your cost up. I myself am a democrat, but I am a conservative democrat. I believe in big business, low taxes for companies, and wealthy, please welcome back Reagomics at least we were all making money

Steven G. Poyzer
Steven G. Poyzer

The fact of the matter is no one, not Democrats, Liberals, Republicans or Conservatives properly vetted Barack Obama to his candidacy or election. This in itself is a travesty as those we entrust to protect and defend our Constitution and Republic from usurpers completely neglected their duty. The United Syates Constitution is perfectly clear regarding the qualifications of the office of the presidency and the definition of "natural born" citizen. There remain arguments as to whether or not a "Certificate of Live Birth" qualifies a a legitimate "Birth Certificate" and as a matter of full disclosure, my own birth certificate is titled "Birth Certificate" not "Certificate of Live Birth." There are also questions regarding his national status as a student at Occidental College, and his Social Security number . College transcripts remain sealed as do Obama's heath records. Probably the most obvious question of all is, how is it we as citizens to trust someone who flagrantly secrets himself behind layers of obfuscation and sealed records while suggesting he has brought about a "More transparent and open" government.

mrs. bench
mrs. bench

So the Framers' definition of natural-born was based upon the father only? Or am I placing emphasis on the word father that was unintended? Has Supreme Court or Congress defined natural-born, or is Constitution still to be interpreted according to 18th century British law definition?

ndole10
ndole10

there is no clear definition, like in many country it is about birth and length of stay in the country ...i dont think there is a differnece of importance btw fathers and mothers...doesnt mother...

ndole10
ndole10

I dont quite understand this. Why is everybody saying that Obama withheld his docs for 2 yrs. he PROVIDED the official form of birth certificate released by the state of Hawaii long ago...he never hid anything from us. That long form isnt the official form but an EXTRAORDINARY one...He fulfilled the constiution's requirement long ago...or he wdnt be here...
Whats the point of this article ?

Frank
Frank

Your comment has nothing to do with this article on being "Natural Born".

ndole10
ndole10

ok, just one question:

What would convince u he is a natural born citizen? is it any doc on this planet that would convince you he is ? anything ? .....what is the standard here...?

ndole10
ndole10

Listen the US does not authorize dual citizenship, France doesnt allow it , lots of country dont allow it but guess what ? nobody cares and hold multiple passeports anyway..I know I hold 2 myself .....

He did live there, and it is heavily documented, but u dont need as a child to change nationality, especially in the 60's and 70's a child would hold a passeport and would live abroad as a "dependant" of his mom ...the step father never adopted him as he had a real father and never needed to...
Marriage of his mom to a local do not autimatically destroy her passeport (it didnt, she remained american) and his pass either..

Tom EE
Tom EE

So, you don't believe he lived in Indonesia with his mother and step father when he was a child? He's even admitted that! What he has admitted, is that Indonesia law required citizenship to attend schools there. Indonesia didn't allow dual citizenship. His step father, who would have had to apply for his adopted son's citizenship, would have had to relinquish his son's citizenship.
I know several people who have dual citizenship, but not all countries allow dual citizenship.

ndole10
ndole10

Hmmm with all respect,he could have also flown above jakarta with a rug and partied with Marilin monroe in siberia....hihihihi
I mean he coulda done that, coulda done this...how about he coulda just be eating his popsicle, and returned home after 2 yrs ..
There is NO indication he did anything else and never needed to, unless u know something I dont know I suggest u just focus on something more fruitful than hating....
and as I have a dual citizenship myself, I can tell u there is no such thing as "naturalisation" of an already american citizen , it doesnt exist ..read the laws urself...unless extremely grave circumstance when u are born american and provided a passport there is no "interrupting" ur citizenship take another one , then when u fed up with that just "naturalize" again and become american..hihhhi i mean what do u think this is ?? an amusement park ? u punch in and out ..? especially when u 5 ? WHO DOES THAT....? LOL..

Tom EE
Tom EE

How do you know he never became an Indonesian? His parents would have signed the documents and he, without his own consent, would have become an Indonesian citizen. If that in fact took place, he, or his parents, would have had to relinquish his American citizenship. After returning to America, he could easily have applied for return of his American citizenship, but ONLY as a "Naturalized" citizen, not as a "Natural Born" citizen! Therefor he wouldn't be eligible for the office he now holds. That then makes all documents and actions he takes in office, null and void!

Read the laws, I have!

ndole10
ndole10

He was born american and his mother is american...hmm the mere fact that he spent 2 yrs in Indonesia, shall I precise, NOT particulalry pledging anything to anyone at the age of 4 or 5 .....he never became indonesian, EVER..just because u do 2 yrs of school in some country doesnt change ur nationality....
Do u fathom the fallacy of what u profess? The only allegiance u have when u are five is to a popsicle for dessert at noon in a very hot country....hihihihii....
I mean HOW can u EVER prove any change of allegiance from a 5 yr old ? good luck with that.....

Tom EE
Tom EE

Don't you understand, one can lose one's status as "natural born citizen"? If he became a Indonesian citizen, even as a child, his status as an American "natural born citizen" is forever lost!
For me, it wasn't about where he was born, it is a matter of his allegiance and sympathies! That why the founding fathers put the "natural born citizen" requirement in the Constitution.

Tom EE
Tom EE

How is posting a document online proof?

Why didn't he provide a certified copy as an answer to the many court case rather than spending millions fighting the cases? Providing a certified copy to one case would ended the debate!

What is he hiding??

Where is the openness of government he promised?

ndole10
ndole10

Are You mad ? the doc of "live birth" has been stamped all over the places certified everywhere , even by 2 govs (both parties) , head of department of health of hawaii, the hospital...wdnt u try and stop frivolous lawsuits too..? pple said they investigated the issue and found nothing.....

ndole10
ndole10

He DID...this is crazy, where do u think he got the first certificate from ? a cereal pack ? walmart ? ...It WAS certified by everybody who was anybody in hawaiii....stamped everywhere...the one provided last week is actually the exact same thing with like 1 or 2 infos like the doctor's name etc on it....the great move of Obama was just "ok the loons wont leave me alone although i have already provided the BC, is it anything else I can provide ?..." I mean essentially it is like giving you the same car with new rims ....so u guys feel vindicated when in fact, he gave u the real thing long ago....

Tom EE
Tom EE

I ask again, why didn't he produce a certified copy of his birth certificate over 2 years ago rather than spend 2 million dollars fighting court cases on technicalities?
Many of those asking during the democratic primaries were democrats!

ndole10
ndole10

He didnt do it because the bottom line is , and Bush complied with that logic as he had to face some liberal loons himself, when you are a president U DONT COMPLY WITH THE LOONS...better look questionnable to 100pple than look weak to the WHOLE country...I mean imagine..Do u imagine the number of frivolous lawsuits against the WH ??? He would spend every single day answering those kinda stuffs and it would never be enough....at the end of the day, he is an elected president , american enough to be in the oval office and take out bin laden, and for him u dont quite exist..unless u manage to move the polls... just like bin laden corpses u just cannot tour around the country with a document and show it to all the 300 mill americans, so u post a picture online...and that is that. In fact what you dont understand is that he doesnt pretty much care about legitimising so loons legal battle, he ows everything to the american pple, so he presents the birth cert in the media...and all u guys have to do, is not vote for him and hope that he fails...cuz unfortunately for u..as far as the issue is concerned the WH wont make any further move from now on, and they just dont care...lets see in 2012

Tom EE
Tom EE

You mean the original certificate of live birth that was posted on line? By what legal standard is that proof?

Why didn't he provide a certified copy in response to even one of the court cases?

Why don't answer these questions rather than giving the typical liberal response by attacking those that don't agree with you!

ndole10
ndole10

No all in ur head...He is the FREAKING president...so what? he provided a birth cert authenticated and stamped by everyone (Rep and Dem gov) and just decided that he didnt have to demean himself answering 100 times a question already answered to a group of 20 fringe activits on the corner..as said HE has got better things to do...Trump was a powerful voice and the polls moved, he asked the gov "ok do u have anything I can give to silence the crazies..?" and gave him a longform which tells ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW about nothing...that what ? his father was kenyan?? did u learn anything new ? NO..that is how silly it is....I mean NOW what do U want his driving license, college thesis and dissertations, his PTA attendance, his mug from Jakarta....? and if U were the freaking Pdt who just killed freaking BEN LADEN btw, would u waste Ur precious time leading the nation answering frivolous demands....? NO, u wdnt ...and me neither..

Tom EE
Tom EE

Why didn't he provide a certified copy of his birth certificate in response to the many court cases rather than spending two million dollars fighting them on technicalities? Sure spending $10 or $20 on the certified birth certificate would satisfied the court cases without spending millions!
No, I'm NOT convinced that he's hiding something!

As far as being "forbidden", it was only just prior to his releasing this document that Hawaii decide to enforce this old law, and only providing computer generated copies. Most states, still provide certified copies of the original birth certificates. I wonder if the release of his birth certificate and the Hawaii's new democratic governor had anything to with it?
Get you head out of the sand and even you, might see that there is something strange going on, regardless of where he was born!

ndole10
ndole10

Ok, let me repeat...He asked like any american and Hawaii provided him with the OFFICIAL version of the birth Cert the version officialy recognised everywhere and opposable to every other states leagally as per the consititution, because pple like u insisted for some unknown reason..He then proceeded to get an EXTRAORDINARY version of it, which is NOT provided usually as it is forbidden, just so to shut evby up and end the nonsense..the idea that he had maliciously waited is insane.....in fact as he was pushed by u guys he had to go the extra mile...

Tom EE
Tom EE

You think I'm mad?

Why didn't Barry, I mean "President Obama" produce this Certificate of Live Birth" when democrats, yes "democrats", first requested this during the primaries??

I ask again, what is "Barry" hiding???