When Idaho Governor C.L. “Butch” Otter signed HO391 into law on 17 March 2010, the “national” news media circled the wagons and began another assault on State sovereignty. The bill required the Idaho attorney general to sue the federal government over insurance mandates in the event national healthcare legislation passed. The lead AP reporter on the story, John Miller, quoted constitutional “scholar” David Freeman Engstrom of Stanford Law School as stating that the Idaho law would be irrelevant because of the “supremacy clause” of the United States Constitution.
In his words, “That language is clear that federal law is supreme over state law, so it really doesn’t matter what a state legislature says on this.” Now that Barack Obama has signed healthcare legislation into law, almost a dozen States have filed suit against the federal government, with Idaho in the lead. Battle lines have been drawn. Unfortunately, the question of State sovereignty and the true meaning of the “supremacy clause” may be swallowed up in the ensuing debate.
Engstrom’s opinion is held by a majority of constitutional law “scholars,” but he is far from correct, and Idaho and the thirty seven other States considering similar legislation have a strong case based on the original intent of the powers of the federal government vis-Ã -vis the States.
The so-called “supremacy clause” of the Constitution, found in Article 6, states, “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding [emphasis added].”
The key, of course, is the italicized phrase. All laws made in pursuance of the Constitution, or those clearly enumerated in the document, were supreme, State laws notwithstanding. In other words, the federal government was supreme in all items clearly listed in the document.
A quick reading of the Constitution illustrates that national healthcare is not one of the enumerated powers of the federal government, so obviously Engstrom’s blanket and simplistic statement is blatantly incorrect, but his distortion of the supremacy clause goes further.
The inclusion of such a clause in the Constitution was first debated at the Constitutional Convention on 31 May 1787. In Edmund Randolph’s initial proposal, called the Virginia Plan, the “national” legislature had the ability to “legislate in all cases to which the separate states are incompetent” and “to negative all laws passed by the several states contravening, in the opinion of the national legislature, the Articles of Union.” John Rutledge, Pierce Butler, and Charles Pinckney of South Carolina challenged the word “incompetent” and demanded that Randolph define the term. Butler thought that the delegates “were running into an extreme, in taking away the powers of the states” through such language.
Randolph replied that he “disclaimed any intention to give indefinite powers to the national legislature, declaring that he was entirely opposed to such an inroad on the state jurisdictions, and that he did not think any considerations whatever could ever change his determination [emphasis added].” James Madison, the author of the Virginia Plan, was not as forthcoming as to his sentiment. Ultimately, Madison preferred a negative over State law and wished the national legislature to be supreme in call cases. But he was not in the majority.
The Convention again broached a federal negative on State law on 8 June 1787. Charles Pinckney, who presented a draft of a constitution shortly after Randolph offered the Virginia Plan, believed a national negative necessary to the security of the Union, and Madison, using imagery from the solar system and equating the sun to the national government, argued that without a national negative, the States “will continually fly out of their proper orbits, and destroy the order and harmony of the political system.” Such symbolism made for a beautiful picture, but it belied reality.
To most of the assembled delegates, the national government was not the center of the political universe and the States retained their sovereignty. Hugh Williamson of North Carolina emphatically stated he “was against giving a power that might restrain the states from regulating their internal police.”
Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts was against an unlimited negative, and Gunning Bedford of Delaware believed a national negative was simply intended “to strip the small states of their equal right of suffrage.” He asked, “Will not these large states crush the small ones, whenever they stand in the way of their ambitious or interested views?”
When the negative power was put to a vote, seven States voted against it and three for it, with Delaware divided (and Virginia only in the affirmative by one vote). Roger Sherman of Connecticut summarized the sentiment of the majority when he stated he “thought the cases in which the negative ought to be exercised might be defined.” Since the negative did not pass, such a definition was unnecessary.
Thus, the federal government was supreme only in its enumerated powers and it did not have a negative over State law. Supremacy had limits.
By the time the Constitution was debated in the several State ratifying conventions in 1787 and 1788, the “supremacy clause” galvanized opponents of the document. The Constitution, they said, would destroy the States and render them impotent in their internal affairs. The response from proponents of ratification illuminates the true intent of the clause. William Davie, a delegate to the Constitutional Convention from North Carolina and proponent of the Constitution, responded to attacks levied on the “supremacy clause” by stating that:
This Constitution, as to the powers therein granted, is constantly to be the supreme law of the land. Every power ceded by it must be executed without being counteracted by the laws or constitutions of the individual states. Gentlemen should distinguish that it is not the supreme law in the exercise of power not granted. It can be supreme only in cases consistent with the powers specially granted, and not in usurpations [emphasis added].
Davie wasn’t alone in this opinion. Future Supreme Court justice James Iredell of North Carolina argued that, “This clause [the supremacy clause] is supposed to give too much power, when, in fact, it only provides for the execution of those powers which are already given in the foregoing articles.If Congress, under pretence of executing one power, should, in fact, usurp another, they will violate the Constitution [emphasis added].”
Furthermore, in a foreshadowing of nullification, Iredell argued that, “It appears to me merely a general clause, the amount of which is that, when they [Congress] pass an act, if it be in the execution of a power given by the Constitution, it shall be binding on the people, otherwise not [emphasis added]. Other ratifying conventions had similar debates, and proponents of the Constitution continually reassured wavering supporters that the Constitution would only be supreme within its delegated authority.
Most bought their assurances, though to staunch opponents, the Constitution still vested too much power in the central authority. The States would lose their sovereignty, they argued, and as a result, these men demanded an amendment to the Constitution that expressly maintained the sovereignty of the States and placed limits on federal power. Even several moderate supporters of the Constitution embraced this idea.
Ultimately, the three most powerful States in the Union, New York, Massachusetts, and Virginia, demanded that a bill of rights be immediately added to the Constitution; near the top of those recommended amendments on every list, a State sovereignty resolution. These ultimately became the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, which reads, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Clearly the intent of this amendment was to mitigate any design the federal government had on enlarging its powers through the “supremacy clause.” If the power was not enumerated in the Constitution and the States were not prohibited by the Constitution from exercising said power, then that power was reserved to the States.
Several other constitutional “scholars” have weighed in on the debate in the last week, and each has invoked the “supremacy clause” to defend their opposition to State action against healthcare. Duke Law Professor Neil Siegel went so far as to suggest that the States are not reading the Tenth Amendment correctly. In perhaps the most outlandish statement of the debate, he also said, “Any talk of nullification bothers me because it’s talk of lawlessness.”
I guess Mr. Siegel has failed to consider that Idaho bill HO391 was passed by a legitimate legislative body elected by the people of the State. That would make it lawful.
Of course, this debate ultimately boils down to loose interpretation verses strict construction. Thomas Jefferson had the best line on this issue. When asked to read between the lines to “find” implied powers, Jefferson responded that he had done that, and he “found only blank space.”
The original intent of both the “supremacy clause” and the Tenth Amendment indicate that Idaho and the other States challenging Obamacare are justified and correct and that the legal profession is either in the tank for the federal government or has not read either the debates of the Constitutional Convention and/or the State ratifying debates. This should make people like Engstrom and Siegel, rather than legitimate State law directed at unconstitutional authority, irrelevant.









You’ve got to realize that the states became a quasi-national union under Quasimodo– aka Lincoln–, when he suppressed the national sovereignty of each individual state.
And thus, since the Constitution handles an INTERNATIONAL compact, then its nationalization simply TRANSFERS all power from the People of the individual states, to the 545 sitting officials in the federal government itself– and whatever they can declare “constitutional” with a straight face.
This made the USA into a supreme imperial oligarchy; and merely being able to choose your dictator doesn’t make it much less of a dictatorship.
Rather, power simply effectively flows to ELECTIONS, and to those political power-groups who INFLUENCE them. Essentially, it becomes a game of political pragmatism and causation, whereby a dollar will be spent in lobbying, wherever it brings MORE than a dollar in benefits– simple as that!
After that, any lawyer can argue the Constitution any way he wants; that’s why we saw the Lincoln-Coup, where Northern fatcat-indusrialists wanted southern tax-dollars and land, and so they hired a whore-lawyer named Lincoln to do whatever it took…. and so he did.
I wish it weren’t that simple, but it is.
@BrianMcCandliss
Lincoln did not have the right to transfer that power so that transfer is null and void.
Here, “The People” mentioned in the Constitution, refers to the People of the individual state, not the United States as a whole; that’s who ratified the Constitution, they did NOT do it by one massive vote; and neither did they CONJOIN their sovereignty via the Constitution to form a single sovereign body.
So in short, the South was right in its claims of national sovereignty, period.
“The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it an unconstitutional law. In legal contemplation, it is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.”
“Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that: it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no offices, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it…”
“No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.” (Volume 16, American Jurisprudence , Second Series, Section 177)
That’s why I call them ‘BRAIN CHILDREN’!!!!!!
True enough BUT when federal troops show up at your door and are willing to blow you away you get small comfort from knowing they are wrong!
Can we talk about reality? You are trying to make rational and legal arguments. It doesn’t matter if you win the argument, for government has more weapons than you do. The federal government is not going to allow you or anyone else to destroy their oligarchy or monopoly on power. The only rule that the federal knows is “might is right.”
I had an argument just last week about this exact thing. I had to inform him of the tenth amendment.
From Thomas Jefferson – ” The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.”
There is only one place a supreme law originates from and is ISNT from government
BOTH are kinfolks.
Nemo Nemoque We The People have more power both in spirit and in armorments than the federal government
OR A DEMOCRAT
It is people like you that the government love. Oh I can’t do anything against the government because they are better armed than me so therefor I will just bend over and take it up the butt. We can and when in time it has to happen we will take our government back.
In a more recent comment to member of Congress, Antonin Scalia reminded them that the Supreme Court never “strikes down” a law. If a law is found to be unconsitutional, there is nothing to strike down because it was never legally valid in the first place!
It’s probably both, but you can add corrupt as well.
Name calling doesn’t help your position. I admire your optimism but who is this “we” that you are referring? Do you have a plan on taking the country back? I do not wish to be offend you, but all that I see is much false bravado.
State law always trump federal law.
The Govt has no standing to legislate upon my inherent bill of rights, neither are they open to debate or a vote of abolishment.
Your statement is absolute truth. Sadly, all those people who have been persecuted (intentional use of the word) by agents of government who have relied upon unconstitutional laws to impose their illegitimate authority are never made whole by the offending level of government whether it be federal, state, county, or municipal.
[W3]
Liberals assert the Supremacy Clause give the Fed superiority, but that only applies to the 18 Enumerated Powers outlined in the Constitution. In ALL other areas, the States and the People individually are supreme.
04/26/2013 Guilty
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/26/officials-found-guilty-in-obama-clinton-ballot-petition-fraud/
or obama? GOD protect us all
Yep, ignorant liars…
ignorant liar
Who would even say that??
Question, though. If a law is unconstitutional, and we don’t have to follow it. Isn’t it kind of a paradox in that one must get permission from the ones who MADE the unconstitutional law to deem said law “unconstitutional”?
I smoke weed, it’s an unconstitutional law to make me a criminal for doing so, as I hurt no one in the process. Yet I will still go to jail if I am caught because nobody has ruled that law “unconstitutional”.
i’m going to go with the ignorant part though most are liars.
both. God’s law is supreme
The Constitution and God’s laws are supreme.
Federal municipal police authority only applies to DC and territories under federal control. The 14th Amd makes federal laws applicable to all people not deemed to be natural US citizens at the time of it’s effect. If your state is a subordinate corporation of the USA Federal Government Inc. then you live in a federal territory. Additionally, the Buck Act divided the nation into 10 Federal Districts – If you live in one of these districts (and we all do) they consider you a Federal Citizen.
Well, folks, when lawyers say that the federal Constitution AND law is supreme upon conflict, they are right but not always or automatically. Nate’s question distinguishes between what OUGHT to be morally and what ACTUALLY is legally. The question is not cut and dried, never was, and never will be.
BEST explanations I’ve seen:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/Preemption
http://www.heritage.org/constitution/articles/6/essays/133/supremacy-clause
Nullification laws passed by states are only a start. They will be challenged in federal courts, and that process takes years, so state supremacy doesn’t automatically take place nor does federal supremacy. This business of calling people ignorant and liars when they know this hated supremacy concept to be the TRUTH isn’t helping the cause. It just looks pig-headed and mulish, neither of which is a bad thing to be IF YOU ARE CORRECT, because that’s what it’s going to take to beat the feds in Court.
I’m all for nullification, but let’s be sure we know what part it has.
In a sense, federal law is supreme because laws must be in accordance with the Constitution, however the confusion arises because we have for years let the federal government overstep its authority and intrude in matters which are reserved under the 9th and 10th Amendments to the States and the People.
Or self deluded.
If it’s not in the Constitution, the gubment doesn’t have the power to do it.
BRILLIANTLY SAID!
Marbury v Madison 1803
Let’s fix the secular laws first. Then we can argue about that.
That’s govna Herbert for you.
there is no argument about that. laws made of men can only be followed if those laws are made by a consenting public therefore they cannot be supreme because a supreme law cannot be questioned. the only unquestionable laws come from a higher power ,
Mostly, federal laws apply only to or on federal property.
Last time i I looked the federal,government was employed by the people. That gives the state the power to say no to anything unconstitutional being armed down their throats. Our founding fathers knew what they were doing by limiting federal powers and giving the power to the states.
“The constitution is the supreme law above all other law”, Any other way is illegal and unamerican.
Satan?
NOTE:section 9.of the constitution READS in part; NO TAX OR DUTY SHELL BE LAID ON ARTICLES EXPORTED FROM ANY STATE.
BOTH
Probably both!
Federal government should not exist
Know, people who say that have studied American History, specifically the Civil War period.