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	<title>Comments on: Choosing Federalism, Choosing Freedom</title>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-293784</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[One thing I&#039;ve wondered is whether a state can amend its own constitution to say that any politician representing that state on a federal level must vote a certain way on a certain issue (for example, must vote in favor of an amendment restricting the federal government&#039;s powers to __,. 
 
I suspect the US Supreme Court would say that is unconstitutional because the US Constitution lists the requirements to hold those federal offices, and the states cannot add to the requirements. I don&#039;t AGREE that the states can&#039;t do so, but I suspect the Supreme Court would take that position. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I&#039;ve wondered is whether a state can amend its own constitution to say that any politician representing that state on a federal level must vote a certain way on a certain issue (for example, must vote in favor of an amendment restricting the federal government&#039;s powers to __,. </p>
<p>I suspect the US Supreme Court would say that is unconstitutional because the US Constitution lists the requirements to hold those federal offices, and the states cannot add to the requirements. I don&#039;t AGREE that the states can&#039;t do so, but I suspect the Supreme Court would take that position. </p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-293783</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This post isn&#039;t very helpful because *none of these options is likely to happen.* Politicians are corrupted by Washington (assuming they weren&#039;t already corrupt prior to their arrival). The checks and balances don&#039;t work because it is an insider&#039;s game in DC, and the Supreme Court would likely rule unconstitutional any state action that challenges federal power. The amendment option requires Washington&#039;s cooperation. The convention option opens us up to the possibility of losing our great Constitution to a lesser one created by today&#039;s politicians. Revolution won&#039;t happen. 
 
If forced to choose - and we ARE forced to choose - the only one of these that MIGHT stand a chance is the amendment. A single amendment that lists explicitly what areas the federal government has jurisdiction over, and bars them from involving themselves in any other areas without a constitutional amendment granting them the authority to do so, MIGHT get the approval of 3/4 of the states. The way to sell it might be to note how the failed policies of states like CA and NY cost the wiser states an *enormous* amount of money.  
 
It&#039;s a tough nut to crack, but we HAVE to crack it. Soon. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post isn&#039;t very helpful because *none of these options is likely to happen.* Politicians are corrupted by Washington (assuming they weren&#039;t already corrupt prior to their arrival). The checks and balances don&#039;t work because it is an insider&#039;s game in DC, and the Supreme Court would likely rule unconstitutional any state action that challenges federal power. The amendment option requires Washington&#039;s cooperation. The convention option opens us up to the possibility of losing our great Constitution to a lesser one created by today&#039;s politicians. Revolution won&#039;t happen. </p>
<p>If forced to choose &#8211; and we ARE forced to choose &#8211; the only one of these that MIGHT stand a chance is the amendment. A single amendment that lists explicitly what areas the federal government has jurisdiction over, and bars them from involving themselves in any other areas without a constitutional amendment granting them the authority to do so, MIGHT get the approval of 3/4 of the states. The way to sell it might be to note how the failed policies of states like CA and NY cost the wiser states an *enormous* amount of money.  </p>
<p>It&#039;s a tough nut to crack, but we HAVE to crack it. Soon. </p>
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		<title>By: Bob Greenslade</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292794</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Greenslade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[John C. Calhoun, Vice President of the United States from 1825 to 1832 wrote: 
 
&quot;Ours is a system of governments, compounded of the separate governments of the several States composing the Union, and of one common government of all its members, called the Government of the United States.  The former proceeded the latter, which was created by their agency. &quot; 
 
&quot;It is federal, because it is the government of States united in a political union, in contradistinction to a government of individuals, that is, by what is usually called, a social compact.  To express it more concisely, it is federal and not national because it is the government of a community of States, and not the government of a single State or Nation.&quot;  
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John C. Calhoun, Vice President of the United States from 1825 to 1832 wrote: </p>
<p>&quot;Ours is a system of governments, compounded of the separate governments of the several States composing the Union, and of one common government of all its members, called the Government of the United States.  The former proceeded the latter, which was created by their agency. &quot; </p>
<p>&quot;It is federal, because it is the government of States united in a political union, in contradistinction to a government of individuals, that is, by what is usually called, a social compact.  To express it more concisely, it is federal and not national because it is the government of a community of States, and not the government of a single State or Nation.&quot;  </p>
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		<title>By: Choosing Federalism, Choosing Freedom &#124; The Ruthless Truth blog</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292741</link>
		<dc:creator>Choosing Federalism, Choosing Freedom &#124; The Ruthless Truth blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: A_pen</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292723</link>
		<dc:creator>A_pen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[skipper, your point misses the mark just a tad. It is not the language of the law that is lacking so much as it is the ability of congress to place justices on the supreme court, in league with the executive, that have a history of doing one small thing they seek and that is to interpret a meaning contrary to its&#039; intent.  
 
At some point we need a constitutional convention limited to the scope of checking the supreme courts constructions that alter the balance of power and to repair the balance where it has been abused by the other branches. The government was never to be entrusted with powers we could not control and they have over time created exactly that, uncontrollable power.   ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>skipper, your point misses the mark just a tad. It is not the language of the law that is lacking so much as it is the ability of congress to place justices on the supreme court, in league with the executive, that have a history of doing one small thing they seek and that is to interpret a meaning contrary to its&#039; intent.  </p>
<p>At some point we need a constitutional convention limited to the scope of checking the supreme courts constructions that alter the balance of power and to repair the balance where it has been abused by the other branches. The government was never to be entrusted with powers we could not control and they have over time created exactly that, uncontrollable power.   </p>
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		<title>By: Skipper</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292693</link>
		<dc:creator>Skipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The crux of the debate, to my mind, lies in the phrase &quot;General Welfare&quot; in article 1, section 8, paragraph 1 of the Constitution.  I thin an amendment to clarify the intent of this phrase would be in order (as well as to clarify several other things lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians have purposely taken out of context in the Constitution and its Amendments).  
 
We need to strip the power away from the federal government and give it back to the states.  This entails putting severe limits on the federal Congress without necessarily ending entitlement programs.  Give welfare, social security. medicare, et al to the states while removing the Congress&#039; power to implement such acts.  When the local voters have control to end programs or move to states that will, the mess will sort itself out. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The crux of the debate, to my mind, lies in the phrase &quot;General Welfare&quot; in article 1, section 8, paragraph 1 of the Constitution.  I thin an amendment to clarify the intent of this phrase would be in order (as well as to clarify several other things lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians have purposely taken out of context in the Constitution and its Amendments).  </p>
<p>We need to strip the power away from the federal government and give it back to the states.  This entails putting severe limits on the federal Congress without necessarily ending entitlement programs.  Give welfare, social security. medicare, et al to the states while removing the Congress&#039; power to implement such acts.  When the local voters have control to end programs or move to states that will, the mess will sort itself out. </p>
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		<title>By: Monorprise</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292606</link>
		<dc:creator>Monorprise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/?p=3668#comment-292606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems apparent one of my main problems is the control the federal government has obtained thou its ability to establish and impose an income tax.   Now many of argued they have no such right such as the federal court itself clamed back in the 1920&#8217;s.  Whether that is true or not is a side issue in that they are imposing an income tax and we have to figure out a way to at least mitigate the power they have obtained thou that taxing power. 
 
 
Example of this power are the social engineering and effective laws they have created using this tax, as well as the entrapment powers the executive branch has accumulated with it&#8217;s threat of Audit over private corporations. 
 
We have observed this being uses quite destructively in their efforts to force private companies to take federal bail out money, as well as on numerous more minor occasions by politicians for apparently political proposes, targeting enemies. 
 
 
One way or the other this destructive power must be mitigated if not totally ended. 
 
Now it may be true that the federal government needs the money from the income tax, if that is the case we can institute a compromise, by means of what is effetely a Federal Tax Escrow like account.   The idea being very simple: 
 
1: The State government by law forcefully rout all federal income tax dollars thou a State account.   
 
2: In that State account the States will get rid of the personal and individual information, and then deliver the lump sum to the Federal Government.  Thus providing the Federal government with its tax dollars and GENERAL Taxing powers, while denying the Federal government the individual data needed to enforce it&#8217;s Unconstitutional discriminating/controlling income tax laws. 
 
3: To deal with Tax fraud the States will establish its own department either as an extension of its preexisting IRS like origination or the creation of some new origination, or conditional cooperation with the existing IRS. 
 While at all time retaining securely the individual information as to prevent it from being abused by federal officers or employees, thus protecting the right of the people from being deprive of their liberty and property without due process of law by the Federal government in this way. 
 
 
 
Optional: 
4:  Later on some states will be-able to uses this same control over the federal tax contributions to force the federal government to pay for what they mandate upon the State, thus prohibiting unfunded mandates. 
 
I do not know how constitutional this all is, but if it is not constitutional we should look at amending the Constitution as to make it constitutional one way or the other. 
 
In absents of such an Amendment and It being soundly regarded as constitutional, I think it may be regarded as fair game to do it anyway given it is done precisely to enforce the constitution and protect our essence rights from a overstepping and increasingly oppressive federal government.   
 
But in any case we will need a significant number of states agreeing with us and doing it at the same time, because the Feds WILL very likely respond rather harshly. 
 
I also recommend doing it slowly and evasively, as so that they may not care at first. 
 
It&#8217;s plausible if necessary we could say:  &#8220;if you don&#8217;t care about the constitution nether do we&#8221; 
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems apparent one of my main problems is the control the federal government has obtained thou its ability to establish and impose an income tax.   Now many of argued they have no such right such as the federal court itself clamed back in the 1920&rsquo;s.  Whether that is true or not is a side issue in that they are imposing an income tax and we have to figure out a way to at least mitigate the power they have obtained thou that taxing power. </p>
<p>Example of this power are the social engineering and effective laws they have created using this tax, as well as the entrapment powers the executive branch has accumulated with it&rsquo;s threat of Audit over private corporations. </p>
<p>We have observed this being uses quite destructively in their efforts to force private companies to take federal bail out money, as well as on numerous more minor occasions by politicians for apparently political proposes, targeting enemies. </p>
<p>One way or the other this destructive power must be mitigated if not totally ended. </p>
<p>Now it may be true that the federal government needs the money from the income tax, if that is the case we can institute a compromise, by means of what is effetely a Federal Tax Escrow like account.   The idea being very simple: </p>
<p>1: The State government by law forcefully rout all federal income tax dollars thou a State account.   </p>
<p>2: In that State account the States will get rid of the personal and individual information, and then deliver the lump sum to the Federal Government.  Thus providing the Federal government with its tax dollars and GENERAL Taxing powers, while denying the Federal government the individual data needed to enforce it&rsquo;s Unconstitutional discriminating/controlling income tax laws. </p>
<p>3: To deal with Tax fraud the States will establish its own department either as an extension of its preexisting IRS like origination or the creation of some new origination, or conditional cooperation with the existing IRS.<br />
 While at all time retaining securely the individual information as to prevent it from being abused by federal officers or employees, thus protecting the right of the people from being deprive of their liberty and property without due process of law by the Federal government in this way. </p>
<p>Optional:<br />
4:  Later on some states will be-able to uses this same control over the federal tax contributions to force the federal government to pay for what they mandate upon the State, thus prohibiting unfunded mandates. </p>
<p>I do not know how constitutional this all is, but if it is not constitutional we should look at amending the Constitution as to make it constitutional one way or the other. </p>
<p>In absents of such an Amendment and It being soundly regarded as constitutional, I think it may be regarded as fair game to do it anyway given it is done precisely to enforce the constitution and protect our essence rights from a overstepping and increasingly oppressive federal government.   </p>
<p>But in any case we will need a significant number of states agreeing with us and doing it at the same time, because the Feds WILL very likely respond rather harshly. </p>
<p>I also recommend doing it slowly and evasively, as so that they may not care at first. </p>
<p>It&rsquo;s plausible if necessary we could say:  &ldquo;if you don&rsquo;t care about the constitution nether do we&rdquo; </p>
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		<title>By: A_pen</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292584</link>
		<dc:creator>A_pen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Having confidence in the peoples ability to understand just how dangerous the federal government has become and demand their state representatives react to that danger by using nullification is wishful thinking. Remember that the liberals&#039; idea that government should take from the richest and give to all others begins in the states, more precisely in the schools and then through these students becoming media mouthpieces and educators in continuation and expansion of that ideology right through to the ballot box. Once the promise of milk and honey is legitimized as a federal political responsibility the principals of the founders and the constitution become worthless to those who lust for a lazy mans life which empowers the wealthy instead of diminishing them. Politicians are easily bought so it is no surprise the poor lose their representation right after they have granted the politicians unbridled power or a means to it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having confidence in the peoples ability to understand just how dangerous the federal government has become and demand their state representatives react to that danger by using nullification is wishful thinking. Remember that the liberals&#039; idea that government should take from the richest and give to all others begins in the states, more precisely in the schools and then through these students becoming media mouthpieces and educators in continuation and expansion of that ideology right through to the ballot box. Once the promise of milk and honey is legitimized as a federal political responsibility the principals of the founders and the constitution become worthless to those who lust for a lazy mans life which empowers the wealthy instead of diminishing them. Politicians are easily bought so it is no surprise the poor lose their representation right after they have granted the politicians unbridled power or a means to it. </p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/11/13/choosing-federalism-choosing-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-292562</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
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