Derek – the Tenth Amendment Center – along with myself personally, officially takes the position that it was “we the people” of the several state who created the federal government to be their agent for certain delegated purposes and nothing more.

This article presents a similar view, but focuses on the compact theory of government, which has some very respectable proponents.

But, the bottom line isn’t much different. What’s most important is the question of sovereignty. Sovereignty is defined as “final authority.” Under the principles of sovereignty at the time of the founding, all powers not expressly delegated were retained. This is the essence of the 10th Amendment!

So whether the federal government was founding on a principle of a “national we the people” or a “people of the several states” (as I personally adhere to) doesn’t matter. The end result is the same – the federal government has only those powers delegated to it by the sovereign. And those powers are limited to what’s in the US Constitution.

Where I take notice is the major constitutional flaw that many supporters of limited government make – and it’s probably due to so many years of government infiltration of our education system. Many people take the position that the “states created the federal government.”

This implies that a government (not people) – the state version – is the sovereign, and has power to delegate powers to another entity, the federal government.

This version is not only seriously incorrect on both historical and constitutional grounds – but is dangerous to your liberty because it promotes the idea of making a government the ultimate sovereign….the final “decider.”

Like you Derek, I have very little time available to me, but through the years I have managed to maintain many of my own personal notes.
I have spent most of my limited time, reading Supreme court decisions, and if I could have it my own way, I would expound my thoughts, upon each and every damn one of them.
The one thing that I can tell you is this, I have learned beyond any reasonable shadow of doubt, that this supreme organization of auto hypocrisy, considers our states of this republic, to be nothing more then mere stepping stones to their own quest for power.

Consider me chastened…

When I wrote, “Great. Just when I thought Michael Boldin had convinced me that the people of the several states created the federal government and NOT the states themselves, I had to go and read this article.”, I was trying to express my personal frustration at being unable to finalize this issue in my own mind.

You see, before I can go about trying to convince my own family, friends and neighbors as to what the true nature of our union is, I have to be convinced myself.

You are correct, I did make a statement, not a question. I just disagree with your assertion that I made a bold one, that’s all. Perhaps I am naïve, but it is the truth that I would gladly read every single post that has been presented on this center if I had unlimited time and no other obligations. I don’t spend a quarter of my waking hours either reading articles posted on the 10th Amendment Center as well as comments made about them for nothing, you know. I only discovered this website and became aware of the growing 10th Amendment movement about a year ago.

As I indicated earlier, your response to my post has been a welcome lesson in humility. I accept it with gratitude! Thank you sir.

“Great. Just when I thought Michael Boldin had convinced me that the people of the several states created the federal government and NOT the states themselves, I had to go and read this article.”

With that said… What concerns me most are people who make a statement, and then there afterwards make the claim that it was just meant to be understood as if they were actually posing a question.

If this is not what you had intended to do, then that is fine, but do not then express to me that you really believe, that I in any way thought, that you would have to read every single post that has been presented on this center, to become yourself less naïve.

Thanks Derek

If my words came across as bold to you or anyone else, I should have chosen different words, since they were never intended to make any assertions at all, but to express honest doubts I struggle with when it comes to the idea that state governments played no part in forming the federal government. Why on earth you would conclude that I believe Mr. Boldin has ever attempted to disregard, or withhold, any critical factors surrounding this issue I have no idea. For all I know, Mr. Boldin has thought long and hard about these factors and has written about them extensively.

I haven’t yet had the opportunity to read everything Mr. Boldin has ever written or recommended that people read on the Tenth Amendment Center’s website. I have to progress through the material available one day at a time. I didn’t realize that reading all of it or most of it was a pre-requisite before a simple but open minded layperson like myself could ask an honest question or point out a perceived problem in the attempt to better understand the different positions people hold on this issue.

Anyone who read my comment carefully should have noticed that I wrote, “..it just SEEMS to me that to say, “The federal government was created by the people of the several states” COULD be over simplifying it.” As we all know, what seems to be the case is often wrong and I very well may be. My mind is far from made up. While my natural tendency is to want to embrace the idea that the federal government was created by the people of the several states and not the states themselves, I keep encountering the writings of people much more intelligent and educated than myself who take a different position. Also, there are critical factors which I have not seen addressed yet. That doesn’t mean they haven’t been addressed by someone somewhere and it certainly doesn’t mean I believe Mr. Boldin or anyone else is trying to disregard or withhold them.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Mr. Boldin’s understanding, as well as the greatest respect and gratitude for his tireless work. His understanding is far greater than mine will probably ever be. I am indebted to him for founding and maintaining this website. I also have a very high regard for other scholars who hold the position that the states did in fact create the federal government. If the words I wrote caused you or anyone else to perceive a lack of humility in me, I sincerely apologize.

“The federal government was created by the people of the several states”

Your comment about Mr. Bolden’s above statement provides me with plenty of evidence, that you personally believe his statement was an attempt to disregard, and withhold, other critical factors, that you yourself have so boldly articulated.

I on the other hand believe that there is plenty of evidence available on this tenth amendment center, itself, of which Michael is the founder, that would begrudge your own, simplistic assessments of this mans understandings.

If you would really like Mr. Bolden to be less, simplistically misunderstood, I would suggest to you, that you personally, take a good long look at all the pro individual state, and pro state legislator posts that this man has placed on this center.

The primary purpose of his book was to refute Justice Story’s assertions, in his Commentaries, that the Constitution was formed by the people, as comprising one nation, and those same people were consolidated into a single nation.

Here is a quote of interest:

“It is apparent that the delegates to [Federal Convention] were to be appointed by the “several States,” and not by “the people of the United States”; that they were to report their proceedings to “Congress and the several legislatures,” and not to “the people of the United States”; and that their proceedings were to be part of the Constitution, only when “agreed to in Congress and confirmed by the States,” and not when confirmed by “the people of the United States.” Accordingly, delegates were, in point of fact, appointed by the States; these delegates did, in point of fact, report to Congress and the States; and Congress did, in point of fact, approve, and the States did, in point of fact, adopt, ratify and confirm the Constitution which they formed. No other agency than that of the States as such, and of, Congress, which was strictly the representative of the States, is to be discerned in any part of this whole proceeding. We may well ask, therefore, from what unknown source our author [Justice Joseph Story] derives the idea, that the Constitution was formed by “the people of the United States,” since the history of the transaction, even as he has himself detailed it, proves that “the people of the United States” did not appoint delegates to the Convention, were not represented in that body, and did not adopt and confirm its act as their own!”

Wouldn’t it be correct to say that the federal government was formed by a compact among the states, each of whose peoples independently assented to it in their ratification conventions, which were composed, not of the collective people of the entire nation, but of the distinct peoples of each individual state? I know that’s very wordy and may even contain some grammatical errors, but it just seems to me that to say, “The federal government was created by the people of the several states” could be over simplifying it.

I think we would all agree that the federal government was NOT created by the aggregate whole of the American people. But just as it “behooves Americans to truly know WHAT IS THE TRUE NATURE AND CHARACTER OF OUR UNION” doesn’t the answer depend on what the true nature and character of the states are?