by Bryce Shonka
Remember the good old days, when one only had to watch out for the Federal Government’s twisted interpretation of the commerce clause to justify tyranny?
Well those days seem to be long gone. The Obama Administration has been employing an old tactic lately – what some might call an imperial threat – and they’re not doing it overseas, either.
STATES UNDER THREAT
The state of Oklahoma is now the target of a direct challenge from US Attorney General Eric Holder, who is using the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as justification to violate Oklahoma’s sovereignty as affirmed by the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution.
In a letter written to the State Attorney General in April, the Federal government used aggressive language, bringing up the possibility of withholding Federal funds appropriated for Oklahoma. The reason? A proposed amendment to the State Constitution, which requires voter approval, that would make English the official language of the State.
“What it indicates is the Federal Government’s contempt for the states, in this case Oklahoma, and for the idea of federal — as opposed to national — government. AG Holder believes that Oklahoma is an administrative subdivision of the USA, and that it is perfectly right for him to coerce Oklahomans to do his will. Who cares whether he has ever been to Oklahoma, met an Oklahoman, or thought about Oklahoma?†said Kevin Gutzman, an American historian and New York Times bestselling author.
Oklahoma is not alone as a state challenged by central authority in recent months. Recently, federal firearms licensees in Tennessee and Montana received a letter from another Federal agency, the ATF, who had also issued a decree wrought with hubris – claims by the Federal government of their legal supremacy across the land.
DESTROYING LOCAL GOVERNMENT
“Both of these letters, particularly this letter to the Attorney General of Oklahoma, are very officious,†observed Rob Natelson, professor of law at the University of Montana. “It reminds one eerily of the kinds of communications that started to come out from the Emperor to the local cities of the Roman Empire, beginning the course of the ultimate destruction of local government.â€
Professor Natelson is a widely-recognized expert on the framing and adoption of the United States Constitution, and on several occasions, he has been the first to uncover key background facts about the Constitution’s meaning. I knew this before our conversation. What I didn’t know, however, was that he’s also been studying Roman Law and history for the past 50 years, and is responsible for several works in that field.
“During the 2nd century AD, the Roman Emperors began increasingly to interfere with local government and they did this with…letters…letters that look something like this,†continued Natelson, indicating the letter from Holder to Oklahoma. “They started out as almost advisory and they got increasingly peremptory. By the end of the 2nd century, there was very little local government left. You had very few people, therefore, willing to participate in local elections; very little patriotic spirit towards one’s own province or city. And this was the harbinger for the ultimate centralization of the Roman Empire.â€
He continued with a strong, decisive tone, “Almost everyone who’s studied in that area agrees that the effect was to sap the life out of the empire, so that everything flowed to the center. All that counted was the Emperor and his bureaucrats…and his courtiers. I look at this and I see this letter which gets close to looking like an order from the central government down to a sovereign state legislature, and I say…WOW. This looks like something that Septimius Severus would have sent to the local officials.â€
In Columbus, Ohio last weekend, a rally in support of State Sovereignty drew around 7,000 people. Judge Andrew Napolitano addressed the rally and made similar comments indicating the nature of our current point in US history.
“In the long history of the world, very few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its maximum hour of danger. This is that moment and you are that generation”
IMPERIALISM AND DECLINE
Are these men ‘crying wolf’?
“Some people might think that’s a far fetched analogy but I can’t emphasize enough how important this development is seen by historians. When people think of the collapse of the Roman Empire they think of the fall of Rome in 476 AD. The conversion of Rome from a relatively free state – almost a Federation – into a totalitarian state, really picked up speed and accelerated during the 2nd century [AD], with this increasing intermeddling by the central authorities in local state government. That’s what it reminded me of,†recalled Natelson.
“[The DOJ] are not violating any law by sending these letters, but there’s a change in tone, there’s a new and disturbing tone in them. At least the ATF letter was addressed to individuals. This one is addressed to a state legislature – really, it’s a bit much. Besides the fact that there’s the tone, there’s the fact that they sent the letters at all. Most of the letters that were sent out by the emperor were called rescripts, and that’s almost what [the letter from Holder] looks like. The one difference is that a rescript was usually a reply to a request for advice. In some ways this is worse than a rescript because this is unsolicited. A better way to compare it would be to an imperial constitutio – an imperial decision or decree.†Natelson added.
His Roman analogy is worth considering, for several reasons. Rome may have ended up a brutal dictatorship, but it began through a series of treaties between regions, and in some ways parallels present day America.
“When you draw comparisons between the U.S. and ancient Rome, you have to be very cautious, though Rome does have lessons to offer us and the history and results of the relentless centralization of the Empire is one of them,†Natelson continued.
THE OTHER WAY AROUND
If there’s a case to be made that the US is headed for the same sort of central plan that sucks the life out of a Republic, it would be difficult to imagine who in the United States could be encouraged by such a trend, outside of DC’s beltway.
“Certainly state legislators in Oklahoma and congressmen from Oklahoma should put the Federal Government on notice that they will support a substantial reduction in the budget for Holder’s portion of the federal bureaucracy so long as he is trying to coerce them in this way.†recommended Gutzman.
Worldwide trends in recent political elections do exhibit signs of a move away from central planner candidates, a trend the United States has been contrary to for nearly a decade, but perhaps the pendulum has reversed itself.
“As the economy grows increasingly complicated, increasingly interdependent and increasingly technological, centralized control (which never worked very well) works less and less, and people are less willing to stand for it. This reflects a visceral gut reaction people have against centralized control, because they know from their own life it makes no sense, though it always takes time for those mega-trends to filter into the political class,†Natelson continued. “Eventually, when a mule gets hit over the head enough times it figures out what’s going on, and eventually the politicians will figure out what’s going on, too.â€
People in the US are coming together by the thousands, demanding decentralization and nullification of Federal powers. Never before have the political elites had to contend with a non-partisan political force on such a massive scale. A storm seems to be brewing; a maelstrom of everyday Americans rallying around the document designed to keep the government in fear of the people – instead of the other way around.
Bryce Shonka [send him email] is Media and Grassroots director for the TenthAmendmentCenter
I’ll say it again — this guy (Hussein Obama) has no earthly idea what he’s gotten himself into. Furthermore, I don’t think he’s capable of understanding it.
I’m a little ashamed of the initial reaction of our legislators in Oklahoma to this threat. But rest assured, the citizenry in Oklahoma won’t stand for this kind of intimidation. Indeed, the federal government is treading on awful thin ice with such threats directed at this state in particular. We take such threats rather personally down here in flyover country. And we ain’t Romans, by the way.
I’am a Vietnam Veteran from Illinois andan Oathkeeper. I stand with Oklahoma,Alaska,and any other state who have or will declare their State Sovereignty and every other State under the Tenth Amendment and I won’t be intimdated by the Federal Government. We will abide by the Constitution as it is written or America could very well face another revolution.
Well said Stanley. I too took the oath "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States agains all enemies, both foreign and domestic." What you say "domestic enemies of the constitution?" Someone must have thought that was a possibility to have included it in the oath every soldier takes.
The Feds have the cart before the horse. The Feds threaten to not rebate tax monies stolen from us (see Supreme Court decision in 1894, taxation without apportionment and census) or taxation without representation, if we don’t do a certain prescribed action. The President, his damn Czars, and Congress are not Kings, Queens or Aristocrats. They forget who made the State of Oklahoma Sovereign, the Sovereignty of Individuals of Oklahoma (or any other state), who then allowed the Feds to act on their behalf as dictated by We the People to the States and then to the Feds. If we cut off the tax spigot to Washington DC (District of Corruption), and to Congress (Corporate Owned, NAZI Government, Reprobate, and Socialistic Swindlers, that they are), then they will be reminded that We the People tell them what to do and not the other way around, hence the 10th Amendment and its enforcement.
“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. How true are those words today? Can America fall just like the Romans? You betchya. As long as we have people who do nothing but sit at home and say “Gee isn’t that just awful” and not get off their butts and hold their representatives responsible, nothing will change. “If you always do what you have always done, you will always have what you got”. Americans need to STAND UP and be heard. The government works for us, we don’t work for the government. If they don’t listen then they will be removed from office (by force if necessary) and replaced as granted to us by the Constitution.
I think it time for individuals to STOP dealing with Washington DIRECTLY.
All communications should now go through state governments including money.
Washington has bypassed the states long enough. Next local or state election kick out of affice all the carpetbaggers, next, eminent domain all
federal property in your state and (THIS IS IMPORTANT) refuse all aid from Washington. From another state, yes, but from Washington,NO. Soc. Sec. money must be payed back with INTEREST as well as MEDICARE to all who payed in. All Wahington mandates regulating GUNS, DRUGS, in state TRANSPORTATION, AGRICULTURE, CONSCIPTION and PERSONAL BEHAVIOR are to be declared null and void. The Tenth Ammendment will rule
Heck, as long as I’m a roll let me add that those worthless reserve notes we have in our wallets should be overprinted with a state name. As an example: One TEXAS dollar = two CALIFORNIA dollars, all based on how well the state is being run. The states would tell the mint how many dollars it needs and the market will determine interest, NOT J.P. Morgan or the shiek of araby (no offence intented). All this business of “commerce clause” and speculation of intent of the founders will mean squat.
This man and his “Prat Boys” are leading us right into a DICTATOERSHIP. I vivadly remember WW II and this is exactly how Hitler and others rose to power.
Oklahoma is a fiesty State that is strongly Christian and traditional values. They recently voted to place the Ten Commandments on the State capital in defiance of the Federal Government. My fervent prayer is that one or more States like this takes the battle all the way to secession, as there is NO HOPE of ever reforming the corrupted and polluted criminal culture we call Washington. We need a clean break from that sinful world, so that we can make our communities safe by having the Bible in our schools and forming our laws and institutions as we see right without interference from an antiChristian government called Washington DC.
God bless Oklahoma! Free Dixi and the American States!
David Harveyd Says:
August 6th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
The Feds have the cart before the horse. The Feds threaten to not rebate tax monies stolen from us…
What the States need to do is refuse to send any monies they collect to Washington. After all, the feds only return about half of it to the States! Lets keep all of it where it belongs, IN THE STATE! All the States would come out ahead.
The States have to power to starve the feds out of existence.
Casey Truskunas Says:
August 6th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
I think it’s time for individuals to STOP dealing with Washington DIRECTLY.
All communications should now go through state governments including money.
Washington has bypassed the states long enough. Next local or state election kick out of office all the carpetbaggers, next, eminent domain all
federal property in your state…
More good ideas.
Lets face it. It’s much easier for US to influence/deal with our States and local reps than with DC. They just ignore us because their so far away.
It is at least clear to me that Obama has no intentions or fear of being voted out of office in the next election. I believe his intentions are here to stay. Indeed a dictatorship. I think his appointment of so many Czars and more to come speak volumes. With Acorn so huge and organized I fear we will not see any more “honest” elections. The states need to get sovereignty while they can. We also need to repeal the Federal Reserve act of 1913. Take control of the money away from them. Then “We the people” will have the power back. Looks to me like it will take a civil war to stop this out of control train wreck. These elitists with their superior self view who think we are just a bunch of stupid red necks have totally underestimated the spirit of the American people. God bless America and help us all!
I do not believe any talk will turn them around…its now or never with these Bolsheviks because as they overreach they grow weaker and those who seek to restore the limited government grow more knowledgeable and organized, although I would advise against any groups let alone large groups.
I was wondering if Bush wouldn’t declare himself dictator and stay in office at the end of his election. It was in his power to do it. Now it would seem Obama is closer on that course then the previous administration. The problem is having enough people seeing it, and believing it. It’s the “frog in the pot” syndrome with many. Keep trying.
As a former Assistant State Attorney and officer of the court, I took an oath to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC. If Obama and his radical ilk continue on the path they are on, i.e. a path of ever increasing tyranny, then they will compel me to honor that oath, and in support of our Constitution, our liberties, and our freedoms, because I do not believe they will back down until they are forced to back down from their radical national socialist fascist agenda.
BO was the designated hitter to preside over the dismantling of the Constitution…Bush was there to set him up, the controllers believe a swarmy BS artist like the TelePrompter-in-chief can get away with it because, all they need to do is keep playing d the “race card” (and will continue to do so)…Black president, who cares?? if he was a Fredrick Douglas, or Alan Keyes, but instead they selected an illegal alien black Karl Marx… watch and see “false flag” events to come.
Stick to your guns Oklahoma! Obama and his henchmen forget that the money that they are so free with is tax money from the citizenry, there is no federal money! My hope is to see all 50 states enact 10th amendment legislation and enforce their soverenty. All of Obama’s administration need to read The Constitution and their oaths again. Go Oklahoma!!
I couldn’t agree more with all that’s been said, except to say this: Would that all who are thinking along these lines not waver and, instead, unite against the tyranny that already has it’s tentacles in our government and is spreading at a rate faster than most think.
GOD, BLESS AMERICA, if You haven’t already left for not being wanted or appreciated!!
I may have been born a Yankee but I will stand with the South on this one! It’s time to withhold the wealth of the Sovereign States from the DC parasites. DC is nothing without the blood and treasure of the host states.
Brave state representatives need to start crafting more bold legislation to legally sever obligations and ties to what has become a foreign occupation force. The citizenry is starting to wake up and respond to this domestic tyranny. The current town hall meetings are signs of what a Japanese general described as waking the sleeping giant.
I flatter myself that I know the mindset of most Okies pretty well. We’re a little intoxicated with freedom and independency down here, therefore sometimes we think we’re ten foot tall and bullet proof. And under certain conditions, well, we are. Nonetheless, I caution everyone that there will definitely be some casualties along the way. As for myself, well, my political loyalties now lie wholly with my native state and her people. Oklahoma is my country.
This is a perfect example of why the states need to unite in this 10th movement. Some have suggested that a new organization of such states would be to replace one federal government with another – thus, perpetuating the problem.
I disagree. And vehemently!
We can’t just watch this stuff happen from our seats outside of Oklahoma, and say, “Too bad for Oklahoma. I hope they can sort it out.”
No. The states must unite in this movement.
So then,
If Oklahoma passes an English as the official language law the feds will withhold funds??..
Sorry, But I’m not finding anything wrong with that…Isn’t the objective to wean off the feds?.. why all the outrage and hand wringing?.. It sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. You cant have your cake and eat it to people, you either are on board or you are not… Oklahomans, Pass the law, and get used to creating your own revenue. this sword cuts both ways.. you also are not obligated to send money to washington to support programs that you are not a part of.
Larry – it’s clearly much more than that. I see them using the funds-withholding threat as little more than a bribe. The bottom line is that they’re issuing a warning about this possible law in Oklahoma – more than they are about the use of $$. For example, if you don’t pay your income taxes on time, generally you’ll get a reminder with a warning, then they may threaten to fine you, and it escalates from there.
There was another Roman that, through his writings and commentaries, tried to warn his people of the encroachments and coming dictatorship and fall of their Empire:
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.
“But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men.
“He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.”
— Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)
During the past 100 years our home-grown and illegal alien traitors have infected our ‘body politic’, to where we are close to the point that some type of conflagration is inevitable. Either there will be concrete steps taken to effect a Restoration of the Constitution and a renewal of the compacts between the States, or we will devolve into rebellion and Revolution. Oklahoma and several other States, via their Tenth Amendment Resolutions, have provided the beginning of that Restoration. The next steps should include a State Edict to starve the beast, by withholding all funds (taxes and fees) remitted to the Federal Treasury. Starve the beast and he will crumble.
If ‘We the People’ are able to remove this illegal alien usurper and his myrmidons from our White House to our other House – Leavenworth – just maybe Restoration can occur. Leaving them in place is not an option for recovery.
“The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional! ©”
I find your logic faulty larry. You said:
“# larry Says:
August 7th, 2009 at 8:20 am
So then, If Oklahoma passes an English as the official language law the feds will withhold funds??.. Sorry, But I’m not finding anything wrong with that…Isn’t the objective to wean off the feds?.. why all the outrage and hand wringing?.. It sounds like a reasonable trade off to me. You cant have your cake and eat it to people, you either are on board or you are not… Oklahomans, Pass the law, and get used to creating your own revenue. this sword cuts both ways.. you also are not obligated to send money to washington to support programs that you are not a part of.”
First those funds come from the people of the state of Oklahoma. It is THEIR money…not the Feds. The Feds plunder the people, then expect the people and the states to jump through hoops to get some drip and drabs back. It is blackmail. It is extortion and they are using our own money to do it.
Secondly, it is not true that Oklahomans are not obligated to send money to Washington to support programs you are not a part of. OK citizens are required to pay Federal taxes PERIOD. All the money the Feds have come from the states and their citizens. It is not the States or the people who want their cake and eat it too, but the Federal government. The Feds plunder the people, then sit in DC and issue edicts withholding from a state the money that came from the state’s citizens if we don’t kowtow to them. That money does NOT belong to the Feds.
The more reasonable and fairer trade off is for the citizens of the states to quit sending money altogether to the Feds. You issue edicts from on high, then we, the citizens of said state, will no longer send you OUR money.
Larry, it’s not as you suggest. It’s one thing to wean a state’s people off the federal government, but it’s another to take the states’ people’s money, call it “federal money,” and then refuse to give it back unless you do “x.”
Your suggestion implies that people need to be weaned off of their own money.
Actually I find myself in agreement with Larry. If I held a seat in the state legislature, my reaction would simply be “bring it on!” But even Oklahoma isn’t quite ready for that level of defiant attitude just yet. The objective should be, not to wean off the federal government, but to wean the federal government off of the states and their people from whence the federal government receives every single penny of its illegitimate revenues. The entire process makes no sense to me anyway. Why send good money to the feds, only to have a portion of it returned under conditions that you cannot possibly agree to? It is simply an ill-bargain, and one that this state in particular will not long hold to.
The best thing in the world would be to STOP taking money from the feds and keep our money in the states. In fact, I think it would be great if Texas, Oklahome, NM, AZ, and Nv. joined together to form our own republic. Texas and Okla could produce oil&gas as well as many other industrial products. NM,AZ,& NV could offer tourism. NV has gold and silver for coinage. How great would it be to have real money. We wouldn’t loan any of it to the stupid people in Washington, either. I am really serious about this. Think about it.
(There are many other things that the latter 3 states offer besides tourism, that is just I think of when I consider them -I live in NV)
Great article Bryce! I hope Oklahoma explains to the Federal Government that they will pass the law, they have every right to do so, they don’t appreciate being dictated to by the AG and they would like to know what “Federal Monies” will be withheld so they can determine what state monies they don’t need to send in. I wish we would do that in California. I know our state is in a huge crisis right now, but I also think it would be the best way for States to get a better handle on their own budgets and stop spending so much time lobbying (begging for money) instead of solving their own problems.
Lots of good commentary here. I believe that we must return to Constitutionally limited Federal government and fiscal-conservatism. I think it is imperative that more States pass STRONG Sovereignty resolutions (such as Tennessee and Alaska have passed)and to do so now.
It is also time for the Sheriffs to step up to the plate and keep their Oath-of-office for they ARE the keepers of the LAW-OF-THE-LAND not the Feds; if they do so I believe they will find the support they need from among the People.
I think States passing Strong sovereignty resolutions should form a defense alliance among each other (States who’ve declared their sovereignty under the Constitution) in order to protect that Constitutional sovereignty of the State and the People from the increasingly un-Constitutional encroachment by the Federal government and it’s minions. I see no other way to peaceably as restore The Constitution as the “Law of the Land” at this point in our history.
The following is the United States Uniformed Services Oath of Office taken by officers:
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
Note that there is no reference to orders or the chain-of-command; that is not required of officers. “So help me God” is not required but is optional.
I think the following modification of that oath would be suitable for those who are not required to take the oath but would like to state for themselves their position with regard to the Constitution of the United States:
“I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of Citizen of the United States. So help me God.”
I think it is time that we must hang together ….
updated the article with a link to the letter from the AG’s office. See paragraph 4. Notice that it wasn’t even sent by Holder, but the “acting assistant” – which makes it even more outrageous.
Say Bettye…You might want to include Louisiana in that “republic”…right now we could feed ourselves and many others simply from the fertility of the land and the water!… For example…surely is quicker to catch
all those crawfish in nets at once rather than one at a time on a string with a piece of bacon down a lone crawfish mound! Cheers to you and all here…
Cameron wrote:
I hope Oklahoma explains to the Federal Government that they will pass the law, they have every right to do so, they don’t appreciate being dictated to by the AG and they would like to know what “Federal Monies†will be withheld so they can determine what state monies they don’t need to send in.
The initial reaction of the state legislature was twofold: (1) They changed the language in the bill so as to appease the federal government (a big mistake as far as I’m concerned, but they’ll come around eventually because citizens like myself will make sure of it), and (2) they did send a reply asking what funding would be withheld in the event that the amendment is passed by the people.
I don’t care which of his minions it was sent by, the buck stops with Hussein Obama. And he’d be advised to learn that, quick, fast, and in a hurry. But as I’ve intimated above, people like Hussein can’t possibly understand real people with real souls still intact.
In the words of Davey Crockett, “when we know we’re right, we go ahead.”
It should not be the Feds withholding funding from the States … it should be the States withholding funding from the Feds. With Sovereignty, real Sheriffs, and the People that becomes possible.
By the way, I want people to know that this isn’t the first time in recent history that our state has been threatened by the feds, and in this exact same manner. When the legislature crafted our immigration law, H.B. 1804, which had about an 80% approval from the good citizens of Oklahoma, the feds (among others), through various minions, threatened the legislature calling the law “unconstitutional,” and (strongly) advising that they cease and desist in their pursuit. The answer of the legislature on that one was more or less for the feds (and everyone else) to take a flying leap. I don’t know why they reacted differently this time, but I’m going to find out.
@ Larry
The problem with your logic is that the funds the Fed are threatening to withhold are funds they taxed from the loyal citizens of Oklahoma.
So you’re saying Oklahoma should just suck it up and allow the fed to steal their money.
And the way Oklahoma would generate that revenue would be to ban the fed from collecting taxes period in Oklahoma, and the state keeping all the revenue that the fed used to tax. This would actually be good policy for the state because they’d have much more money to use within their state because the fed only gives them a fraction of what they paid in. Problem is figuring out how to do it without the fed attacking you for cutting them off. Though them attacking would also be good because it would rally states…
As much as the illegitimate federal government gets my dander up with this kind of B.S., I cannot possibly imagine a better time to be alive. It used to be that I thought I was born a couple of centuries too late, but in fact that is not the case at all. I agree with Judge Napolitano — this is the generation, and we’re fortunate to be part of it. Praise be to God!
“Enemies foriegn and domestic” We don’t need their money as bad as they need ours. Osama Obama doesn’t belong in officve he is out of his league by being there. Blinded by the show that he put on many fell prey to the curse he carries. “The false Messia”? You decide.
I think we need to put Dr. Vieras’ plan into action! If not now, when?
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin197.htm
Nicholas wrote:
So you’re saying Oklahoma should just suck it up and allow the fed to steal their money.
I don’t think that is what Larry is saying at all. He’s simply pointing out that the whole scheme of sending our money to Washington, only to receive a fraction of it back is, well, stupid at best, moronic at worst. I personally do not, anymore, contribute to the thoroughly illegitimate federal “Social Security” program. Now, eventually the feds will come to get me for my insolence. They’ve already threatened me numerous times on this account. But what has to happen here is that the state governments have to protect their citizens against this abuse of power. Otherwise the states themselves lose all legitimacy.
ARE WE STILL BEING GOVERNED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION?
Caveat: It is hard to find reliable and informed info on this subject – a lot of people with a little knowledge have written about it and put stuff up on You Tube, etc.
Especially in matters of law, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I offer the below for people to check out and research on their own, because if true it is very, very important, even essential. So…
To the best of my knowledge and belief the following is true:
I think our ‘rulers’(and their rulers) in the de facto (not de jure) government just get so many yuks out of all of us standing up on our hind legs and talking about ‘the Constitution.’ Isn’t it glaringly obvious that WE ARE NOT BEING GOVERNED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION – AND HAVE NOT BEEN FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME?
Guess what – to argue the Constitution is ‘frivolous’ — why? Because indeed, we are currently NOT being, and for many decades have not been, governed under the Constitution. If we were, there would be no Federal Reserve System, no income tax, no property taxes, no federal law enforcement within the states, no Social Security, no federal entitlement programs, no US Code – the list is endless.
It is kind of like being ‘a little bit pregnant.’It’s either/or – either you are, or you aren’t. And we aren’t.
How did this big change come about? By these means – and there might be, probably are, other ‘legal legs to stand on (such as the Congressional ‘revised Trading with the Enemy Act, see Gene Shroder) that the usurpers have created for themselves –
1.Research by Gene Shroder and others reveals that the United States is under a continuously maintained state of emergency (see Senate Report 93-549, look it up online) and therefore under a form or degree of martial law/rule. This condition (under the Law of Nations, I believe) SETS ASIDE all civil law, rendering it optional. The form of government becomes essentially that of a military dictatorship under the President as military commander in chief, who has the kingly power to make law by decree, essentially(as in Executive Orders).
All of this would be reasonable and even necessary in a bona fide emergency. But governments (and those who control them) love that power concentrated into a single office, and so want to enjoy (and employ) it all the time – hence the continuous ‘emergency’ renewed periodically on some pretext or another, usually with the word ‘war’ in there somewhere (war on terror/poverty/drugs) because by international law, WAR is the only sufficient reason to declare/impose this suspension of civil law and imposition of a de facto military dictatorship.
WHY don’t we know about this? Because the info just might ‘disturb the public peace’ (i.e., make people hopping mad), and under an ‘emergency,’ to preserve the public peace is a government’s foremost duty; and it is even regarded as acceptable to fail to disclose these matters to the public if to do so might be deemed possibly disruptive of the ‘public peace.’
2. http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm
As this site briefly explains, Congress created a DC corporation in the post-Civil War era. Its ‘constitution’ is deceptively named very like but not identically to the original Constitution put in place by the founders of the country.
And this corporation is deceptively named/styled similarly to but not identically to the original country formed by the founders.
This is a commercial corporation. The states (and counties, and cities) have joined in as franchisees. (And we the people are deemed to have ‘volunteered’, in CORPORATE CAPACITY, into this SEPARATE, CORPORATE, COMMERCIAL JURISDICTION, by receiving or being eligible to receive government benefits.)
The most obvious clue is in the ‘styling’ – slight changes of wording (Constitution ‘of’ or ‘for’,for example) and spelling all in caps. STATE OF OHIO, COUNTY OF KING, CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO, etc. You will note (if you do a little legal research) that the states and cities and counties used to be styled, Ohio State, King County, San Francisco, etc. And – JOHN DOE versus John James Doe.
Changes in styling, even small ones, are IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT in legal documents.
We the people become ‘corporate citizens’ under this extra-Constitutional DC corporation whenever we accept any BPO, benefit, privilege, or opportunity – any kind of govt. welfare or assistance or even get enrolled in any such program, such as Soc.Security by getting an SSN. So all of our Constitutional arguments are frivolous. It is like living in France and invoking Argentinian law. Duh. Case dismissed.
Tawny – I’m not sure how any of that really matters.
this isn’t a movement that’s asking permission from the federal government, its politicians, or its judges – to exercise our rights. It’s about standing up and doing that with or without them.
We see the constitution as our guide – it’s the place where we want the federal government to be if it’s going to exist. And when they go outside those boundaries, we’re putting into place actions where we stand up and say no – nullify the federal laws. Sovereignty resolutions are just the first step – it’s an announcement of our intentions to Resist DC…..and it’s my hope that we’ll see more and more resistance in the years to come.
Join us.
I think each State must pass a strong Sovereignty resolution that includes prohibiting the IRS from collecting income tax in that State. There is already legitimate concern that it is illegal for the Feds to collect income tax as the amendment, apparently, was never properly ratified. The State should then immediately enable the “FAIR TAX” as the only source of revenue for the State and the State should decide how much of that revenue to keep for itself and how much to give to the Feds. It has the advantage of total transparency to the chagrin of special interests and those wishing to collect bribes.
“He who controls the gold makes the rules”.
The States should also pass term limits, recall procedures for ALL elected officials, and enable the “civil grand jury”.
States depending on the Feds for handouts are no more than “boot licking curs”.
To paraphrase: It seems that the Government has found that it CAN bribe the People (States) with their OWN money!
Terry, you hang in there buddy, I’m across the Red river ready to help out.
All I can say about the rest of you people is that I LOVE YOU ALL.
Why not have the States withhold their federal taxes to force compliance by the Feds?
Look everyone,
My take is this:
it’s a vicious circle of the feds taking money from the states, and in return the states must capitulate with federal mandates to get it back.. No?
at some point the circle has to be broken. The odds are not very good that the feds will stop making these sweet little offers of money in exchange for control, or will return what they have already taken unless Oklahoma does what they are being forced to do. True, the money is the property of the good people of Oklahoma. But if the people are serious about their sovereignty, they will cut their losses in exchange for their freedom.
I understand the risk of escalation, and I understand that there is a larger part.. but lets just take this one thing.. this one isolated issue.
the feds always tell the states what part of the money is in jeopardy if their wishes are not met.. ( for instance, with the federal texting legislation it is 25% of their federal road money.) The percentage that the feds are threatening to tie with the English language law is the money you focus on..Instead of bowing to the feds, and accepting the money in return for dropping your fight. You say ” no thanks”… Look, the feds are not giving you an ultimatum.. they are giving you a choice!.. money for control.. Not, “control no matter what” or control if you don’t comply”.. it’s a simple money OFFER.. a friggin bribe… Just say NO!!.. and find other ways of making up that particular portion that was lost.. raise taxes in your home state to make it up, or fund your own program with the money you would have sent to Washington.. do what ever. But in doing this, you have not sold out..
without states actually committing to their cause your resistance is a bluff and don’t think the feds don’t recognize the states unwillingness to stand up. This is why I say resolutions are useless, because they don’t require commitment. yes, you gave notice.. okay.. so notice was given…what then?
I am NOT advocating violence!.. A Stand can be made with peaceful, civil disobedience.. by a State standing up and simply refusing to fund the federal programs that overstep their authority. You simply STOP sending the portion of dollars that fund that particular issue, in this case it’s the portion that was offered in exchange for dropping the english language legislation.
Question:
What is the worst case scenario if Oklahomans decided it was not going to accept the portion of the federal dollars that is being threatened if the “English as the official language” law is passed? answer: YOU DON’T GET THE MONEY THAT IS BEING USED AS BAIT. So, you simply say no thank you, and you stop sending it, thus, you stop receiving it. Enforcement is a non issue because money was what was at risk….you said no thank you, end of discussion… To me, this is not a complex issue, it is an issue of commitment. What issue is going to be THE one that put States on the road to sovereignty? It’s only going to take one State to actually make a stand, and freedom lovers around the country are going to converge on that State in support.
Michael Boldin: “The bottom line is that they’re issuing a warning about this possible law in Oklahoma – more than they are about the use of $$. For example, if you don’t pay your income taxes on time, generally you’ll get a reminder with a warning, then they may threaten to fine you, and it escalates from there.”
Prophetic, I think. When the power of the (once)federal government is challenged, one can hardly overestimate how far they will go, what methods they will employ, to protect it.
answer to Michal Boldin -why does it matter, if we are under emergency and that suspends the Constitution and changes the prevailing ‘law’?
As I understand it, it matters very much. Because this is how the COURTS OF LAW see the matter. So if we just ‘stand up and take our rights’, we are legally viewed as being insurrectionists, rebels, ‘enemy combatants’ (no rights under the Nuremberg and Geneva Conventions, I believe, hence the use of that term).
You know – the FEMA camps, the military being deployed on US soil in contravention of posse comitatus ? — all of that is ‘legal/lawful’ under a declared ‘emergency,’ because under the Law of Nations, the only law under a national emergency is the Law or Doctrine of Necessity, which is that ‘necessity knows no law…’
Larry wrote: You simply STOP sending the portion of dollars that fund that particular issue, in this case it’s the portion that was offered in exchange for dropping the english language legislation.
The problem with that is what other items would you withhold for as against those you think should be remitted? No, pick-and-choose is the exact wrong way to resolve this. I live in PA, and I’m sure there are lots of items the Feds disburse funds for that my state receives nothing, but for the benefit of our whole society understand it. WRT your state and the towns and villages — same thing.
It has come to the point with the Fed that they have vastly overstepped their Enumerated Powers with the manner and methods they have attached to those items they have no power to legislate. Sending in $9 instead of the $10 they expect will only cost you more, as they will drag you into Federal court on every little item. Shut off the whole flow and they’ll back off and give in, for fear that other states will follow that road.
JMH – angry! – O.
The two issues are entwined, state rights and federal funding to the states.
1. Its a fact we all know, all 50 states have traded their sovereignty for federal funds.
2.We also know, the Feds have no problem with any state passing a sovereignty resolution, as long as the state makes no attempt to put force of action to said resolution. And now, as being demonstrated, the minuet a state attempts to actually assert it’s rights in defiance of a Federal policy or mandate, the feds come out with the big hammer of federal funding, to hammer the state back into compliance.
3. The salient questions to me are: (a.)are the Legislators and Governors prepared and willing to forgo state federal funding of their various agencies?, (b.) do they have a state contingency tax plan (all taxes to the state, non to the feds) set up for their citizens? (c.) and if the answer to either (a.) or (b.) is no, are we, the state citizens, willing and able to apply enough political pressure to make the Legislators and Governors stand up to the feds?
It would seem to me these questions must be answered in a positive way before any meaningful 10th Amendment action can occur.
brityank,
I really think that you have to pick and choose, otherwise we end up exactly how we are now… pissed off and nothing done.. you pick one issue and you cease funding it..so the feds drag you into court.. all the better I would think the American people, or the citizens of a certain state would love to have their day in court, Look at the 2nd amendment fight… the whole country was chomping at the bit to get it heard.. and look at the results, we won. having the argument of federal intrusion heard in a court of law is what will finally put this thing to rest.
Nothing has ever been accomplished in an all or nothing environment, especially when it comes to government.
You know I’m glad to see that the people in this country are getting mad at whats going on. But saying that it was the majority of voters who put this idiot in office and we will have to grin and bare it intil either we find out he is in office illegally or voted out.
Paul, are you seriously saying that if someone’s elected to government, that we should just suck up and take it – no matter what they do?
Is there anything that the government might do that you feel warrants saying no to? Or, do you prefer that the people of this country stay united on a principle of unlimited submission to their general government; spineless, and begging for some other politician to save them?
Would you have supported Hitler, because he too was elected to run a government?
If that isn’t advocating the worst sort of tyranny, I don’t know what is.
We are all hoping that Oklahoma stands by it’s sovereignty claim and turns their chins up in defiance of the Fed. However; if they do, they should not be a left to face the outcome alone. If they do it, they will not only be defending thier own rights granted to them by the Constitution but the rights granted to all states by the Constitution. We are all still “One Nation Under God” according to that Constitution and that is with or without the Fed. We do not need the Fed to still be united. If the Fed wants to single out a particular state for anything at all and deny them what is already rightfully theirs, then it is only a matter of time before they do it to another state (Tennessee). If thats the game that they really want to play, then let the Fed be singled out by all of the states in return.
All of us united to accomplish the common goal of righting the wrongs that we have have allowed them to perpetrate against us would be their worst nightmare. Look at how much just a little discontent with no real organization has freaked them out and put them on the defensive. Personally, I would really love to see the Governors of each state all recall their National Guard members at the same time and put out an alert to have all state militia on standby and dare the Fed to act up while they remove the 16th amendment and leave the Fed with only enough money to perform the duties allowed by the Constitution.