Comments on: The Founders Wanted Big Government? I Object.

By: lewfalo

lewfalo — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:49:57 +0000

Doesn't really matter, does it? We've arrived at this point with the Constitution given us by the Founders. "Limited government" is utopian fiction.

By: MichaelBoldin

MichaelBoldin — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:59:03 +0000

Hey Cydnie – a lot to discuss here! but, most important in my opinion – is the topic of the word expressly and the 10th Amendment. Here at TAC we published a phenomenal research paper on this very topic that will be extremely useful for your understanding of how the 10th works – and why that word was eliminated – and rightly so.

See the paper here: http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/07/27/th…

By: Cydnie Martin

Cydnie Martin — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:08:46 +0000

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/02/25/th…

By: Cydnie Martin

Cydnie Martin — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:07:44 +0000

With Mr. Wolverton being an attorney, I'm surprised he missed the nationalists ability to argue their case and bring into the ratified documents of the Constitution many vaguely worded sentences in order to reinterpret them later via the Judicial Branch. Madison and Hamilton being key figures in these debates for the side of the nationalists, made sure for example that "expressly "was left out in the 10th Amendment and that other amendments in the Bill of Rights, "Commerce" and "Welfare" Clauses were easily open to interpretation rather than clearly stated. For a more complete picture with references and original sources, please read Hologram of Liberty by Kenneth T. Royce.

As Lysander Spooner in 1870 wrote, the Constitution “has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it.”

By: The Founders Wanted Big Government? I Object « Secession and Nullification â€” News & Information

Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:43:39 +0000

[...] article by Joe Wolverton II on TenthAmendmentCenter.com. RecentlyÂ an article was published at lewrockwell.com wherein the author, Kirkpatrick Sale, [...]

By: Tweets that mention The Founders Wanted Big Government? I Object. â€“ Tenth Amendment Center -- Topsy.com

Sat, 13 Nov 2010 00:06:18 +0000

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Joe Revolution, Ron Paul. Ron Paul said: The Founders Wanted Big Government? I Object. http://bit.ly/a8kCRn #tlot #tcot #RonPaul [...]

By: Stormytime

Stormytime — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 22:45:06 +0000

The true history of the Convention reveals the existence and nature of the competing political forces. Nationalism, monarchism, and federalism. It is a fact that plans were advanced by Hamilton and Madison during the Convention, to establish a supreme national government with total power over the states. It is a fact they were rejected. It is a fact that the Consitution that was ultimately drafted and ratified established a confederated republic. It is also a fact that, although defeated in their plans, Hamilton and Madison elegantly made the case for the Constitution in the Federalist Papers and other forums of the day. Nimble fellows. But they and their political contemporaries never surrendered their goal of a national government. And through subversion and usurpation, the forces of nationalism were ultimately victorious. Sad, but true.

By: Julie Mercer

Julie Mercer — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 22:10:23 +0000

Sale's article is sloppy and reckless.

By: Stormytime

Stormytime — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:52:52 +0000

But the able men who were in favor of a supreme central government did not disappear in defeat. They immediately set about subverting the Constitution, through usurpation and judicial constructions of implied powers. The rest is history. In that there were, amongst the most prominent of our Founders, defeated nationalists who never abandoned their project for a supreme central government, Sales touches upon our sad but true history.

By: Stormytime

Stormytime — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:52:42 +0000

Not having read Sales, perhaps he alludes to the general political composition of the delegates to the Convention. There were three camps. The nationalists, championed by Hamilton, advanced a project for central government with supreme power over the states, principally excersided through an all-powerful Congress; the monarchists, championed by Madison, maneuvered for a central government with supreme authority, principally secured through an all-powerful Judiciary; and the republican federalists, who opposed nationalization, central supremacy and insisted on a federal republic. For much of the Convention, with the nationalists and monarchists united, their project to establish a supreme central government held a slight majority. But the republicans, by far the largest of the three groups, refused to waver. Finally, the nationalist/monarchist alliance crumbled; and their project was rejected.