I agree with you. I think the Constitution, government, and liberty it created is lost forever. But my argument is simply about the “constitutional power of force” the People have to keep government contained within the bounds of the Constitution. My argument is not about whether the People will do it or not. My guess is they will not do it, as you said history proves they have not ever in the past. I think there are reasonable arguments that even the Washington administration was not wholly constitutional.

You said the ballot box is a pipe dream, well, just bear in mind it is not “my” pipe dream but the dream of our Founders and written in the Constitution. Any discussed method to control government not mentioned in the Constitution must be a greater pipe dream, the Tenth Amendment or armed revolution, huh?

Wasn’t it Madison, or Jefferson that said something like; the safest depository for freedom is in the hands of the People?

Allan

I’m glad to see this old approach being brought up again – state sovereignty, and potentially, nullification.

That’s correct because the Constitution, not the People, was established to Rule government (Oath of Office). When Officials obeyed their Oath of Office government business was of no concern to the People.

But, what happens when government (Officials) do not honor their Oath of Office? Each House of Congress has the power to correct and fire its Members and all Judges (for as little as bad behavior) and even impeach the President.

A simple truth of the matter is government is not honoring the Oath of Office, therefore, not doing the job as required by the constitution.

I find nothing of “force” in the Constitution available to the States to correct unconstitutionality of the federal government. But, the People do have one direct “constitutional” power to force criminals (perjurers/liars) from elected office, the Ballot Box and can do so every two years for Members of the House of Congress (Article I, Section 2). Remember, all Bills for raising federal revenue must start in the House; Article I, Section 7.

The People have a direct power of force (ballot box) to use against Members of the House (Article I, Section 2) and a direct power against government “legislation” only when serving on a citizen jury (Amendments 5, 6, and 7, of the Bill of Rights).

Allan

“When the people established the powers of legislation under their separate [that is, their state] governments, they invested their representatives with every right and authority which they did not in explicit terms reserve; and therefore upon every question respecting the jurisdiction of the House of Assembly, if the frame of government is silent, the jurisdiction is efficient and complete. But in delegating federal powers, another criterion was necessarily introduced, and the congressional power is to be collected, not from tacit implication, but from the positive grant expressed in the instrument of the union. Hence, it is evident, that in the former case everything which is not reserved is given; but in the latter the reverse of the proposition prevails, and everything which is not given is reserved.”

Then as a Juror a citizen has the absolute power to not indict or convict according to his/her common sense understanding of the Constitution and an unconstitutional law and or an unjust application of a law. Legalese or government legislation or SC decisions are not enforceable binding on a Voter or Juror’s Right of Conscience; reference Amendments 5, 6, and 7 of the Bill of Rights.

Allan

This is what was said by Chief Justice Marshall “So, if a law [e.g., a statute or treaty] be in opposition to the Constitution, if both the law and the Constitution apply to a particular case, so that the Court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the Constitution, or conformably to the Constitution, disregarding the law, the Court must determine which of these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty. If, then, the Courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the Legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.”

While it was never in the Constitution, the power was assumed. The only way to overturn that is to get the Supreme Court to overturn Marbury vs. Madison. Until then, the people will never have a say what is or isn’t Constitutional. While we vote for congress and president, the Supreme Court is appointed and has final say in all matters.

However, the point to get across is SC decisions mean absolutely nothing in the line of orders to or binding on the Citizenry’s Right of Conscience especially when a Citizen is in the act of performing a Duty in Citizenship (Ballot & Jury Boxes (two)). SC decisions mean absolutely to the Constitution too; the SC cannot amend, much less change, the Constitution.

Yes, government Officials of all stripes “claim” (assume) and do many things “repugnant” to the Constitution. Government Official’s claims and even legislation that “infringes” on a Citizen’s freedom, or Right, is repugnant to the Constitution.

Allan